Windlass Friction Disc Material...?

[Rowglide]

Hi I have been a long time lurker but now have a question of my own that I haven't found an answer to.
So I have joined this forum and hope I can contribute as well as learn.
I have an older "Monica" horizontal windlass. Just spent a pile of time replacing all the seals bearings and having the motor rebuilt. One thing left to do....
I need to replace the friction discs
a) because they are contaminated with grease
b) because they are most certainly asbestos
c) because they are original from 1978(+/-)

Ideal windlass discs look similar, but Cliff (former owner) says theirs won't fit size wise.
Any suggestions for where to find this type of thing?
The discs are 2.75" ID, 5.50" OD, and 0.177"(+/-) Thick.
thanks
Rowglide

[a64pilot]

I'd try scrubbing then clean with acetone, maybe even a soak.
I would think they would work even with grease on them

[Rowglide]

That is a possibility, but I would rather dispose of them as they are Asbestos, and asbestos dust is a known and agreed carcinogen. I was hoping to find a modern friction material that would function as a substitute.
Rowglide

[UNCIVILIZED]

I'd clean them & give them a try. If they work, call it good enough. There's not likely to be enough asbestos in them to cause you any issue. Especially if you consider that most of the time there won't be any clutch slippage going on in the windlass. Primarily you either have them engaged, or not, with virtually naught in between. And even then, unless you're trying to huff the clutch dust from a distance of 5cm, it'll mostly be blown away long prior to reaching your face. Right?

If in doubt, look up things such as Permissable Exposure Levels, & other quantifiers for measuring toxic thresholds. As quite a lot of these things get overhyped in the media. Though I'm no expert, so as I said, look them up. But personally I wouldn't give it a second's worth of worry, even without the data. Scrubbing them with acetone's probably worse for you than the small amounts of asbestos in them released through their use.


Keep in mind too that sometimes stupid levels of research goes into testing things in order to see if they're toxic. I've seen reports on the possible toxicity of silica & quartz thick enough to literally stop a bullet. Where the reports were commissioned in order to find out if common beach sand was toxic! No joke. And their conclusions: Quite possibly so! How freakin idiotic! Yet they got mucho $ from the Gov't to do the studies. Studies which "warranted yet more studies" in order to make a proper determination.
One can only wonder if there's a special place in Hell for those with such motivations.

[Bill O]

If you can't find any direct pre-made replacement, the suggestion by A64 to de-grease the disc is a good stop gap. Old asbestos containing parts can be handled safely as long as they aren't broken apart or heavily abraded to cause dust.

You've probably already checked the opposite surface to the friction disc. to make certain that it is grease free and not glazed. If glazed, a light sanding of the metal surface w/emery cloth should do the trick.

Your inquiry made me think of where one would find friction disc material as I also would like to have some spares for our Ideal windlass and at $88 a pop they aren't that cheap. Did find an industrial clutch manufacturer that sold all every type of "flat sheet friction material". The example I provided is in the UK (not sure where you're located), but the search also found links in the US as well.

I'll ask Ideal (now part of Schaefer Marine), but I'm fairly certain they are using an organically bound material (asbestos free) since there any many different types of friction material available. Purchasing a sheet should be cost effective way to cut out several discs for spares.

Bill O.

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

I'd clean them & give them a try. If they work, call it good enough. There's not likely to be enough asbestos in them to cause you any issue. Especially if you consider that most of the time there won't be any clutch slippage going on in the windlass. Primarily you either have them engaged, or not, with virtually naught in between. And even then, unless you're trying to huff the clutch dust from a distance of 5cm, it'll mostly be blown away long prior to reaching your face. Right?

If in doubt, look up things such as Permissable Exposure Levels, & other quantifiers for measuring toxic thresholds. As quite a lot of these things get overhyped in the media. Though I'm no expert, so as I said, look them up. But personally I wouldn't give it a second's worth of worry, even without the data. Scrubbing them with acetone's probably worse for you than the small amounts of asbestos in them released through their use.

Keep in mind too that sometimes stupid levels of research goes into testing things in order to see if they're toxic. I've seen reports on the possible toxicity of silica & quartz thick enough to literally stop a bullet. Where the reports were commissioned in order to find out if common beach sand was toxic! No joke. And their conclusions: Quite possibly so! How freakin idiotic! Yet they got mucho $ from the Gov't to do the studies. Studies which "warranted yet more studies" in order to make a proper determination.
One can only wonder if there's a special place in Hell for those with such motivations.

I think I'd rather have it that way, an abundance of caution, than the other way. And your description of those studies is likely overly glib. These days, lots of armchair folks seem emboldened to chastise scientific communities they barely understand. Dunning-Kruger, I reckon. Not saying that's you, you're typically rather well informed, just lamenting.

But to the OP, I think you are being overly cautious. I think if you compare the workplace situations that led to mesothelioma, etc, to your occasional, outdoor use of a teeny little clutch plate, you'll agree. But mcmaster does sell various thicknesses of several non-asbestos friction materials you could possibly cut down to the size you need? I cut some up and used it in the wheel-brake assembly in my steering pedestal a few years ago.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#brake-lining/=15z9dfc

[gjordan]

Here in California there are places that will reline brakes, clutch plates, friction plates with non-toxic materials, so I would think they could duplicate your disc, although I also think it is not a worry to re-use your old one. People that worked in brake shops or shipyards were in real danger from asbestos, but the amount that might escape from a windlass would be like worrying about star dust falling from the heavens and ruining your lungs. If you are still worried, look for shops that reline clutch plates. Good Luck. Grant.

[Cheechako]

I think brake lining might work. But frankly, I wouldn't worry about the asbestos. The amount of dust coming off a friction plate is.... well.. about zero. Many of us that did brake jobs for years , blowing the asbestos dust everywhere etc are not effected at all. It's long term and consistent exposure in a work environment that's an issue.

[Rowglide]

Thanks for the link. That is exactly what I am after. The original discs are in such poor condition that no amount of loving is going to save them. I was/am simply looking for a replacement solution. Asbestos type materials can still be found, but I wanted a better option. Try getting rid of old asbestos floor tiles or siding anymore, I agree that I am dealing with a miniscule amount in reality, but why risk it?
Rowglide

[a64pilot]

Beach sand is of course toxic, some of it it is silicon I believe?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicosis

[Rowglide]

OK I have a source for custom made friction disks
If you ever need some for a windlass, try Cleveland Oak Friction Products.
Ask for Jay Barrett. He is super helpful and tehy had a set made and shipped to me in days. Just needed my dimension and they cut them out on a waterjet machine.
Friction Material & Fabrication-Ribbed Rubber Idler Covers-Waterjet Cutting - Canton, Ohio