Would you get rid of a self steering wind vane if you had one?

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by sailingunity

Our boat was built in 1974, so obviously due to technological limitations at the time the original owner installed a wind vane self steering on the stern. It is a bolt in style, the rudder is stored in the lazarette I have to lower it in the water with the mizzen sheet and bolt it to the bottom of the bracket. Our boat now has an autopilot and I'm wondering if we need to keep the wind vane at all.

Keep it:
-We could steer at sea without having to use any power
-Could act as a backup rudder (though not impossible to makeshift something else)

Ditch it:
-The components take up valuable storage space
-Unable to have a ladder directly at the stern gate; cumbersome to board from the stern.
-Could possibly have a small boarding platform instead.
-I spend more time cleaning rust off of it than actually using it.
-Limited maneuverability when the rudder is in the water; must remove it before entering tight spaces.

You have a stern ladder installed next to the vane structure, just reconfigure the location of your lifeline gate to be directly over the stern ladder.

If you seldom or practically never sail with an automated helm, then indeed it is serving little or no use or purpose. Kind of like having a stern mounted anchor if you never anchor from the stern. Chose your equipment to suit your sailing requirements.

As to cleaning rust off of it, what is it made of that is not marinized material? It should be rustless?

[MJH]

Originally Posted by sailingunity

Our boat was built in 1974, so obviously due to technological limitations at the time the original owner installed a wind vane self steering on the stern. It is a bolt in style, the rudder is stored in the lazarette I have to lower it in the water with the mizzen sheet and bolt it to the bottom of the bracket. Our boat now has an autopilot and I'm wondering if we need to keep the wind vane at all.

Keep it:
-We could steer at sea without having to use any power
-Could act as a backup rudder (though not impossible to makeshift something else)

Ditch it:
-The components take up valuable storage space
-Unable to have a ladder directly at the stern gate; cumbersome to board from the stern.
-Could possibly have a small boarding platform instead.
-I spend more time cleaning rust off of it than actually using it.
-Limited maneuverability when the rudder is in the water; must remove it before entering tight spaces.

I removed the davit on my boat to installed a Monitor windvane and will never take it off completely despite only using it on offshore passages...that will shock davit users. I view a davit as a convenience thing and the windvane as an operational necessity on passages since having experienced a complete power failure crossing the Gulf of Mexico solo.

Don't attempt to board from the stern...I board from the port side via ladder. My previous non-bluewater boat had a stern ladder and that was nice, I admit.

Minimize taking some windvane components when you are not planning to use it such as on non passage trips.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[sailingunity]

Originally Posted by Montanan

You have a stern ladder installed next to the vane structure, just reconfigure the location of your lifeline gate to be directly over the stern ladder.

Easier said than done!

Originally Posted by Montanan

As to cleaning rust off of it, what is it made of that is not marinized material? It should be rustless?

It is made from 316 which still in fact rusts with salt exposure. Bar Keeper's Friend makes quick work of it, but still annoying!

[mabowers]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Get rid of it. Most of the CF populous have their heads stuck in the 1970s-80’s sand... technology has moved on.

Yeah, because wind is different in the new millenium, right ? Passages must be shorter.

I have a Monitor, a Raymarine driving a CPT chain/cable autopilot, and a tiller autopilot rigged to a plate that replaces the Monitor vane. I wouldn't get rid of any.

The only advantage to removing the vane would be the ability to have dinghy davits.

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by sailingunity

As far as cruising grounds, we do plan to cross oceans

If you plan to cross oceans - you need redundant self-steering - double or singlehanded it sucks to have to hand steer for like 5 days (been there done that). That redundancy can either be a good selection of spares for the autopilot, or the vane. I have done it both ways - there are pros and cons - either is doable and 'reasonable' (IMHO). You have enough electron generating capacity to do the autopilot plus spares approach.

We have broken (at sea) the autopilot fluxgate, and the main display (which had the left/right button); and there was one fault which required me to take all the wires out of the main black box and then reattach them - one was intermittent and neither I nor Robertson (on the sat phone) could figure which one even after a couple of hours with a multi-meter - it worked fine after just redoing all the connections.

We have cracked welds on a vane (monitor) and lost two steering rudders (on a windpilot) - so the wind vanes are not absolutely repair free. The windpilot also required the brearings to be cleaned quite regularily or it would not steer in light winds. If you wanted to start using yours, I would think you would want to inspect and perhaps replace whatever bearings it has (as it sounds like it has been just sitting there for quite a while).

We had a rudimentary "ladder" (board attached to ropes).

We got a side ladder for our first boat (the one with the monitor). It worked ok. But the stern platform on later boats were nice.

Rudder falling off seems like a low probability for us

agreed, and I dont know how many people here have tried actually emergency steering with a vane blade but it is not great.
The blade is real small compared to the main rudder. If the main rudder is missing you end up with an unbalanced boat. If the main rudder is jammed over to one side the vane rudder will not overcome it.

Bottom line - if I were you, I would take the vane off and store it until you get to ocean crossing mode. Then I would reconsider the vane vs autopilot spares approaches. Either will work - in different ways - just depends on your 'philosophy'. The autopilot will generally steer much better but the vane is more simple 'self-reliant'.

Breaking Waves

[Baba Buoy]

Originally Posted by contrail

Actually, I found it quite easy to climb up the windvane, when boarding at the stern, whether from a dinghy or the water. A bit more athletic than a swim ladder, but no great hassle. Probably a good exercise, in fact.

In the movie "Dove", when the actor Joseph Bottoms fell overboard, he used the wind vane to climb back up onto the boat. Kind of impressive.

[jen1722terry]

I'm with Breaking Waves. Maybe remove it but leave the bolts in place (maybe covered with acorn nuts so you don't get stuff snagged on them).

I've only used vanes a few times and found them fine if the wind direction/speed was fairly constant (like offshore). Inshore, I like the AP for I can adjust it easily and even program in waypoints, if I'm experiencing a particularly lazy day).

Anyhow, a nice and valuable piece of hardware to hold onto. Even if you never use it, a potential buyer might see it as a plus if he/she is planning long passages.

Nice old boat, BTW

[RaymondR]

Nothing beats being able to laze in the cockpit whilst enjoying the day and only having to occasionally make a languid stretch to press a button for a course change.

[sailingunity]

Hang on a sec, I just realized I don't think I've seen a single youtube sailor with a wind vane! Case closed.

[puffcard]

Originally Posted by Sojourner

I would offer advice from a different angle: a stern boarding ladder is not the world's safest thing. You could get an Amel style side boarding ladder and use it as a passerlle in port as well. Much less likely to get bashed on the noggin boarding from the side....

I think the stern ladder is one of the safest ways to get back on a boat. As someone who has gone overboard. To be recovered with a LifeSling, re-boarding the boat with a stern ladder at sea, gives me a great appreciation to their usefulness. I believe it may be the only way and the safest. I couldn't imagine my new crew member rigging a side boarding ladder in any sea without instructions. Luckily we went over overboard drills enough to get me back on board. I know of four people that have perished by falling off their boats and were unable to get back on board. My stern ladder is designed to be lowered by anyone in the water. I wouldn't have a boat that I couldn't get back on if I fall overboard. I fallen in twice, so my view is different.



If the OP isn't doing oceans crossings, which very few do. Take it off, less drag, clutter and maintenance.

[250224]

Originally Posted by sailingunity

Hang on a sec, I just realized I don't think I've seen a single youtube sailor with a wind vane! Case closed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_Dq0f3WwW8

(a well known video)

[Don C L]

clearly a faked video... who flips pancakes like that while sailing?

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by sailingunity

Wow a lot of replies from everyone, thanks for the advice.

As far as cruising grounds, we do plan to cross oceans - but plenty of boats cross oceans without wind vanes. The previous owners used it and loved it, but did complain about maneuverability once they reached shore, also they did have the rebuild the wooden rudder once. .....

If you plan to do long passages with only a Mom and Pop crew then you are very reliant on your self steering. Fatigue is the enemy offshore. Most cruisers doing ocean passages with boats your size have a backup for self steering (either setup initially or put on after they got some experience). You could setup a secondary autopilot as a backup at some serious expense, or plan on having your existing AP and windvane be primary and backup steering in your preferred order.
Being that you have the windvane already and plan to do ocean passages, I'd keep it and learn to use it for now. You can always sell it in some remote cruising ground if you decide its more trouble than its worth.

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Get rid of it. Most of the CF populous have their heads stuck in the 1970s-80’s sand... technology has moved on.

So... This comment begs to ask the question.
What other self steering apparatus is there out there that's New Technology that doesn't use power?
Self steering wind vanes need only trim and adjustments to steer without any power.
Generally, as the wind blows harder the vanes work better, autopilots will fail or use a lot of power to steer in that type of setting.
Please comment!
Thanks
SV Cloud Duster

[masonc]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

Nothing beats being able to laze in the cockpit whilst enjoying the day and only having to occasionally make a languid stretch to press a button for a course change.

I can go one better, when we motor or sail in light breeze, we sit under a phifertex cover we made to fit the foredeck and drive using a remote. It's so cool and lazy.