2 forms of ID & the latest rules.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by Minggat

So your simple answer is to carry your passport everywhere?

If having 2 forms of ID were not of value, I would not have brought it to the attention of the forum, for the benefit of other global cruisers.

I keep my passport secure and would not hand it over in my home country, officialdom is likely to hang onto it and tell you to come get it at the police station. However I do keep a certified-true-copy of the identification parts and my drivers license available if I do need identification.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

I keep my passport secure and would not hand it over in my home country, officialdom is likely to hang onto it and tell you to come get it at the police station. However I do keep a certified-true-copy of the identification parts and my drivers license available if I do need identification.

I use my passport a lot for ID , often it’s handed over but never retained these days. In my experience certified copies ( certified by whom ) are not acceptable to people looking for passports

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I use my passport a lot for ID , often it’s handed over but never retained these days. In my experience certified copies ( certified by whom ) are not acceptable to people looking for passports

I would not offer a copy if going through immigration but there are a lot of people now asking for photo ID who will accept a certified copy, post offices if you go to pick up a parcel for instance.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Jdege

How difficult is it to renew a passport, without a fixed address?

Hmmn, unclear as to difficulty:

Reference Form DS82

https://eforms.state.gov/Forms/ds82.pdf

U.S. Department of State
U.S. PASSPORT RENEWAL APPLICATION
FOR ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUALS



Instructions for completing the form:

Section 8

Mailing Address Line 1 and 2 "In Care Of": For line 1 enter applicant’s Street/RFD #, or P.O. Box or URB.
For line 2, if you do not live at the address listed in this field, put the name of the person who lives at this address and mark it "In Care Of".


FYI - An urbanization denotes an area, sector, or residential development within a geographic area. Commonly used in Puerto Rican urban areas, it is an important part of the addressing format, as it describes the location of a specific street. Generally, the abbreviation URB is placed before the urbanization name.


Section 18: Permanent Address (Complete if PO Box is listed as mailing address, or if residence is different than mailing address. DO NOT LIST A PO BOX)

Seemingly one would just use your current residing at address if applying by form submission or applying in person.

[Montanan]

Background information about credit cards and requests for ID.

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/can-...ard-2013-12-02

"May I see your ID, please?"

You may never give a second thought to a store clerk's request for identification when you pay with a credit card. But as long as you have signed your card, you may not be required to show that ID to make a purchase.

The question of whether it's a good idea to present an ID sparks plenty of debate between those who see it as a deterrent against fraud and those who think it creates an unnecessary privacy risk.

Card Networks hold the cards

While some states have laws barring a cashier from writing down your ID information, the card networks -- Visa, MasterCard and the like -- have the most say in whether merchants can even ask for identification. The agreements merchants sign when they decide to accept cards from those networks include rules that govern card verification procedures.

All the networks allow a merchant to ask for identification. MasterCard and Visa, however, explicitly prohibit retailers from requiring an ID to accept a properly signed card. "They can ask for that ID, but you can refuse to show the ID and they still must accept the card," says Paul Stephens, director of policy and advocacy at the Privacy Rights Clearinghouse, a nonprofit that advocates for consumer privacy rights.

On the other hand, Visa and MasterCard rules prohibit the acceptance of unsigned cards. If you present one, the merchant must ask you to sign the card and supply an ID. Visa guidelines specify that it must be an official government ID.

Discover's policies are more intrusive. They state that a store employee who has doubts about the validity of a card should "request and review additional identification" from the customer. And for an unsigned card, the company requires two pieces of identification, including one government-issued photo ID.

American Express is more vague. It requires merchants to "verify that the customer is the card member," but its rules make no direct mention of requiring an ID.

"American Express doesn't really have a policy on it," says Linda Sherry, director of national priorities for Consumer Action. "If the merchant wants to ask for an ID, that's fine."

Shop clerks don't always comply

Stephens says many store owners aren't aware of card issuer restrictions on requiring an ID, and set store policies that violate the rules. In other cases, employees may unwittingly break their own store's own policy by requesting an ID, out of fear of having an unauthorized transaction slip by.

Retailer location can make a difference, too. Stephens recalls a personal experience when a store's ID policy seemed to be applied in a discriminatory way.

[requiem]

Originally Posted by Minggat

So your simple answer is to carry your passport everywhere?

If having 2 forms of ID were not of value, I would not have brought it to the attention of the forum, for the benefit of other global cruisers.

Thus the suggestion for getting a passport card along with your passport. That way your traditional passport book can be maintained in a secure place, and you also have a government-issued ID that fits into a wallet.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by requiem

Thus the suggestion for getting a passport card along with your passport. That way your traditional passport book can be maintained in a secure place, and you also have a government-issued ID that fits into a wallet.

Good idea, if you live in a country that issues them.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by requiem

Thus the suggestion for getting a passport card along with your passport. That way your traditional passport book can be maintained in a secure place, and you also have a government-issued ID that fits into a wallet.

That’s what I do. I carry the passport card in my phone wallet

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Background information about credit cards and requests for ID.

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/can-...ard-2013-12-02

"May I see your ID, please?"

You may never give a second thought to a store clerk's request for identification when you pay with a credit card. But as long as you have signed your card, you may not be required to show that ID to make a purchase.

The question of whether it's a good idea to present an ID sparks plenty of debate between those who see it as a deterrent against fraud and those who think it creates an unnecessary privacy risk.

Card Networks hold the cards

While some states have laws barring a cashier from writing down your ID information, the card networks -- Visa, MasterCard and the like -- have the most say in whether merchants can even ask for identification. The agreements merchants sign when they decide to accept cards from those networks include rules that govern card verification procedures.

All the networks allow a merchant to ask for identification. MasterCard and Visa, however, explicitly prohibit retailers from requiring an ID to accept a properly signed card. "They can ask for that ID, but you can refuse to show the ID and they still must accept the card," says Paul Stephens, director of policy and advocacy at the Privacy Rights Clearinghouse, a nonprofit that advocates for consumer privacy rights.

On the other hand, Visa and MasterCard rules prohibit the acceptance of unsigned cards. If you present one, the merchant must ask you to sign the card and supply an ID. Visa guidelines specify that it must be an official government ID.

Discover's policies are more intrusive. They state that a store employee who has doubts about the validity of a card should "request and review additional identification" from the customer. And for an unsigned card, the company requires two pieces of identification, including one government-issued photo ID.

American Express is more vague. It requires merchants to "verify that the customer is the card member," but its rules make no direct mention of requiring an ID.

"American Express doesn't really have a policy on it," says Linda Sherry, director of national priorities for Consumer Action. "If the merchant wants to ask for an ID, that's fine."

Shop clerks don't always comply

Stephens says many store owners aren't aware of card issuer restrictions on requiring an ID, and set store policies that violate the rules. In other cases, employees may unwittingly break their own store's own policy by requesting an ID, out of fear of having an unauthorized transaction slip by.

Retailer location can make a difference, too. Stephens recalls a personal experience when a store's ID policy seemed to be applied in a discriminatory way.

Good luck with that. I'm betting 99% of shop clerks have no clue what the rules are. I'm betting better than 95% of store managers have no clue and even at the corporate level, most stores probably aren't aware.

Of course, the question is are there easy work arounds. Used to be in the credit card rules, that you couldn't charge extra for using a credit card...solution, advertising the cash discount price. I believe they backed down on that as you frequently see a surcharge for using a credit card now.
- Just as easily, you could say it's company policy for all sales and has nothing to do with the credit card. Of course, they may forget to ask for cash sales but that's an internal company issue.

Honestly, I'm not sure, the credit card companies could legally enforce a "no checking ID" policy. It would make it too easy to fight a disputed charge...We aren't allowed to request ID to verify, so we had to accept that they were using it legitimately even though there are clear indications that something isn't right.

[skenn_ie]

Time expired license/passport seems to make you a non-person overnoght. Ditto, not having a fixed address. Has anyone asked why government issued documents even have an expiry date ? Is it just a money-spinner, or is it about control ?

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by skenn_ie

Time expired license/passport seems to make you a non-person overnoght. Ditto, not having a fixed address. Has anyone asked why government issued documents even have an expiry date ? Is it just a money-spinner, or is it about control ?

Generally, they will be accepted as proof of who you are but not necessarily for their underlying purpose.

If you have a drivers license that is 2 months out of date, authorities are likely to consider that identification but they are likely to issue you a ticket from driving without a license.

Some good reasons for an expiration date:
- For a picture ID an 50yr old picture of you at 20 may not look a lot like you at 70.
- 40yr old you, may have been well qualified to drive. 95yr old you may be legally blind and senile. Requiring renewal every few years gives a chance to check if it's still appropriate to let you drive.

Of course, the expiration date is right there on the ID, so if you don't follow up, that's on you.

[Discovery 15797]

What address do you have on your registration/documentation?

Instead of the PO Box route...try using a mail forwarding service. They provide a physical address which is all you need for ID purposes.

Works wonders and has been used by cruisers for years...decades.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Discovery 15797

What address do you have on your registration/documentation?

Instead of the PO Box route...try using a mail forwarding service. They provide a physical address which is all you need for ID purposes.

Works wonders and has been used by cruisers for years...decades.

This is the law as per the US Code of Federal Regulations as to what is required to be listed in form CG-1258, APPLICATION FOR INITIAL, EXCHANGE, OR REPLACEMENT OF CERTIFICATE OF DOCUMENTATION; REDOCUMENTATION

§ 67.113 Managing owner designation; address; requirement to report change of address.

The owner of each vessel must designate a managing owner on the Application for Initial Issue, Exchange, or Replacement of Certificate of Documentation; or Redocumentation (CG-1258).

(a) The managing owner of a vessel owned by one person is the owner of the vessel.

(b) The managing owner of a vessel owned by more than one person must be one of the owners. The person designated as managing owner must have an address in the United States except where no owner of the vessel has an address in the United States.

(c) The managing owner of a vessel owned in a trust arrangement must be one of the trustees.

(d) The address of the managing owner must be as follows:

(1) For an individual, any residence of the managing owner.

(2) For a partnership, its address:

(i) In the State under whose laws it is organized; or

(ii) Of its principal place of business.

(3) For a corporation, its address:

(i) For service of process within the State of incorporation; or

(ii) Of its principal place of business.

(e) Whenever the address of the managing owner changes, the managing owner shall notify the Director, National Vessel Documentation Center within 10 days.

[CGD 89-007, CGD 89-007a, 58 FR 60266, Nov. 15, 1993; 58 FR 65131, Dec. 13, 1993, as amended by CGD 95-014, 60 FR 31604, June 15, 1995; USCG-1998-4442, 63 FR 52190, Sept. 30, 1998]

[Discovery 15797]

Originally Posted by Montanan

This is the law as per the US Code of Federal Regulations as to what is required to be listed in form CG-1258, APPLICATION FOR INITIAL, EXCHANGE, OR REPLACEMENT OF CERTIFICATE OF DOCUMENTATION; REDOCUMENTATION

(d) The address of the managing owner must be as follows:

(1) For an individual, any residence of the managing owner.

(e) Whenever the address of the managing owner changes, the managing owner shall notify the Director, National Vessel Documentation Center within 10 days.

Hmmm...I wonder why NVDC affirmed my use of postal forwarding address for my documentation?

Because from a legal POV: "Residence address means the street address and any apartment number, or the address at which mail is received if the residence has no address, and the city, state, and zip code that correspond to a person's residence."

As explained to me by NVDC, they need 2 things relating to this specific matter. 1.) the city and state the vessel is documented in (which does not need to be in a city or state of ANY of your residences), and 2.) a "residence address" to mail your physical certificate of documentation.

Also, the wording of the regulation (it's a CFR, NOT codified as a LAW in USC) is misleading. ANY "residence" can include my vessel (since that is where I physically live). When I sailed from Seattle to Hawaii my physical residence is now in a different state where I also had a resident address at the marina. However, since Hawaii is not the state I choose as a primary residence (see last para.), and I had a "residence address" using a mail forwarding service in Washington state I am not required to notify NVDC of a change of address.

BUT, MORE IMPORTANTLY...the only reason I brought up the USCG documentation/state registration angle is because both those documents must have a "residence address" as defined by law.

Other forms of ID require a PRIMARY residence for purposes of taxation and voting. A person may have more than 1 residence in more than 1 state but, by law only one of those residences can be a PRIMARY residence.

[Discovery 15797]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

The UPS store is a CRMA and most states probably have a list of those and explicitly prevent their use for this sort of thing. Certainly GA does and did prevent me using my UPS store mail box as my address on the DL.

A DL in most states (incl. Georgia) requires proof of residency. A CRMA does not establish residency.

It is illegal to have a valid driver's license in more than 1 state. Mostly because your valid driver's license also identifies your PRIMARY residence (for tax and voting purposes).

However, in Washington state proof of residence for a REAL ID can include

* Cell phone bill or statement
* Bank or credit card document (statement, card mailer, etc.)
* DSHS benefits letter (medical, food, etc.)
* Pay check or pay stub with the employer's name and phone number or address *

All of which can be sent to a PO box OR a CRMA!

Also accepted are:
* Letter attesting residence in alternate housing
* Moorage document