A non US citizen with Delaware registration flys what flag?

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Delaware is not a country. That was settled in the little unpleasantness of 1861-1864. The wrong way in my opinion, but it is what it is

A boat registered in Delaware is registered in the U.S., and is obligated to wear a U.S. ensign.

Got a reference for that? The second part I mean. [emoji6]

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Except, its not USA Documented, cant be legally, but rather registered in the State of Delaware.

So what? What other nationality can the boat have, other than that of the COUNTRY in which it is registered?

Most Swedish yachts aren't registered in any way, anywhere. They wear Swedish ensigns, and are obligated to do so, even if the owners are American.

Ships have nationality just like people do. Just because you don't have a passport, doesn't mean you're not American.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Delaware is not a country. That was settled in the little unpleasantness of 1861-1864. The wrong way in my opinion, but it is what it is

A boat registered in Delaware is registered in the U.S., and is obligated to wear a U.S. ensign.

...

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Got a reference for that? The second part I mean. [emoji6]

Havent found an authoritative reference, but did find this odd little wrinkle on a registration service site. So, in this case you could get into trouble for flying the registration flag of the vessel !

"
NON U.S. CITIZENS OWNING A DELAWARE REGISTERED VESSEL
CRUISING IN THE UNITED STATES

A non U.S. Citizen may own a Delaware Corporation or LLC which in turn will own a vessel registered in Delaware. The vessel may cruise the waters of the United States, BUT, according to U.S. Customs, must fly the flag of the country of the Owner of the Corporation or LLC. The vessel must also clear in and out of Customs whenever it moves from port to port within the United States.
"
- All Yacht Registries, Inc.

[Jim Cate]

FWiW, our boat is registered in Illinois, not Federally with the CG. We spend most of our time in Australia in her, and we are obliged to fly the US ensign... and an Aussie courtesy flag. If I was not an American citizen, that same situation would apply.

Jim

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

So what? What other nationality can the boat have, other than that of the COUNTRY in which it is registered?

Most Swedish yachts aren't registered in any way, anywhere. They wear Swedish ensigns, and are obligated to do so, even if the owners are American.

Ships have nationality just like people do. Just because you don't have a passport, doesn't mean you're not American.

But its not registered in a country, its registered in a State. While I of course follow the logic of what you are saying, Ive yet to find a legal reference stating it. Laws of course are not always logical.

In practice, all Delaware registered yachts I know of fly a USA flag. A Brazillian friend has a Delaware registered boat. He has cleared in/out of the USA multiple times with no flag issues (he was hassled by officials, but not over flag etiquitte).


If most Swedish yachts are not registered then what makes them Swedish? And how do they prove it? [emoji20]

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

But its not registered in a country, its registered in a State. While I of course follow the logic of what you are saying, Ive yet to find a legal reference stating it. Laws of course are not always logical.

If most Swedish yachts are not registered then what makes them Swedish? And how do they prove it? [emoji20]

The nationality of ships is determined by the law of the state of nationality.

So it means that the rules can vary from country to country.

In the U.K. and Sweden (at least), a U.K. or Swedish ship doesn't need to be registered at all to be a UK or Swedish ship if it's less than a certain size (24 metres in the case of the UK) and used for recreational purposes.

I am in the UK and I don't actually know the U.S. law on the subject. It could be after all that U.S. law does not regard a yacht registered in Delaware to be a U.S. vessel without Coast Guard registration -- that would be bizarre -- what other nationality could a Delaware registered vessel have? -- but there's no international law which forces the U.S. to recognize nationality in any particular way. Someone will have to do some research.

Certainly you cannot use a Delaware flag, as that is not an ensign, and Delaware is not a nation. From the point of view of international law, you might as well fly the rainbow flag. And certainly you cannot use the flag of the owner's citizenship, as that has nothing to do with the nationality of ship. Foreign countries will demand that you wear the ensign of the country in which the vessel is registered, whatever kind of registry that is.

If you are stopped in UK waters in a Delaware registered vessel, and you are wearing ANY flag other than the U.S. flag, you're in a heap of trouble, boy. Foreign vessels are obligated to properly identify their nationality, and Delaware is part of the U.S.

What U.S. law says on the matter, though, I don't know.

[Mgago]

Thank you good people for your response. I will take both

[Anders]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Most Swedish yachts aren't registered in any way, anywhere. They wear Swedish ensigns, and are obligated to do so, even if the owners are American.

I don't think that is correct, I believe that only owners that are Swedish citizens or EU citizens resident in Sweden have the right to fly a Swedish flag.

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Havent found an authoritative reference, but did find this odd little wrinkle on a registration service site. So, in this case you could get into trouble for flying the registration flag of the vessel !

"
NON U.S. CITIZENS OWNING A DELAWARE REGISTERED VESSEL
CRUISING IN THE UNITED STATES

A non U.S. Citizen may own a Delaware Corporation or LLC which in turn will own a vessel registered in Delaware. The vessel may cruise the waters of the United States, BUT, according to U.S. Customs, must fly the flag of the country of the Owner of the Corporation or LLC. The vessel must also clear in and out of Customs whenever it moves from port to port within the United States.
"
- All Yacht Registries, Inc.

That means inside the US territory such boat should fly (as stated above) flag of the owners nation. But outside the US, or at least in any other nations territory the flag of the registration country which in this case is the USA.
Bizarre me thinks but so be it..

Teddy

[Anders]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

B
If most Swedish yachts are not registered then what makes them Swedish? And how do they prove it? [emoji20]

Who would they have to prove it to? and why?

In northern Europe no one care if a boat is registered or not.
Its only when you go to the more bureaucratic southern European countries that expect all boats to be registered that you need a registration, for most northern Europeans the first country they sail to that requires registration is France.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Anders

Who would they have to prove it to? and why?

In northern Europe no one care if a boat is registered or not.
Its only when you go to the more bureaucratic southern European countries that expect all boats to be registered that you need a registration, for most northern Europeans the first country they sail to that requires registration is France.

Napoleon has a lot to answer for..

[valhalla360]

I assume the boat only has state registration as USCG Documentation is limited to US Citizens.

To a degree, you are playing in a gray area as you are not nationally registered/documented at all (though many jurisdictions will accept the state registration)
- In most cases (US Citizen on US state registered boat), there is no conflict and all evidence is it's a US boat that should fly the US flag.
- In this case, you have state (not national) registration and non-US citizenship (not sure if a legal resident has an impact). If you had no registration, the owner's citizenship would likely be the determining factor.

In reality, other than a debate over technicalities, no one is likely to make a big deal of it in US waters.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

That means inside the US territory such boat should fly (as stated above) flag of the owners nation. But outside the US, or at least in any other nations territory the flag of the registration country which in this case is the USA.
Bizarre me thinks but so be it..

Teddy

Apparently so, like I said: law isnt always logical.

In practice, in my experience, outside the USA Delaware registered boats fly the USA flag.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Anders

Who would they have to prove it to? and why?

In northern Europe no one care if a boat is registered or not.
Its only when you go to the more bureaucratic southern European countries that expect all boats to be registered that you need a registration, for most northern Europeans the first country they sail to that requires registration is France.

A Frech official perhaps? [emoji6]

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

...

In reality, other than a debate over technicalities, no one is likely to make a big deal of it in US waters.

True, in practice Ive never known it to be an issue. Even in USA waters, my Brazillian friend flys the USA flag, contrary to the alleged rule I posted earlier. He's never been hassled about it and USA officials have hassled him thuroughly when clearing in over...well...being a furiner.

So the practical answer to the OP is to fly the USA flag, but Id still like to see a legal reference for that. [emoji4]