A non US citizen with Delaware registration flys what flag?

[boatman61]

Theres a lot of Turks flying the Stars n Stripes.. doubt theyre all citizens.

[CFS Klopas]

Originally Posted by bumpman

If I remember correctly, a US Ensign (the one with the anchor) is the correct flag for a US documented vessel, whereas a US flag (stars and stripes) is the correct flag for any other US vessel. Am I correct? Or has this changed?

Was never true. The anchor ensign is only used for recreational yachts in US waters. The 50 star ensign is used in all other situations where a United States ensign is needed. Documentation/registration doesn't matter.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Mgago

Just wondering about a non US citizen with Delaware registration. Do they fly the stars and stripes or the Diamond of Delaware or both?

In US waters you needn't fly anything. Those no.s on the bow are all you need.
Outside the US in foreign waters fly an American flag. It seems the larger issue may be Del. registration for a non citizen. There was a thread on that not long ago. I think that came out to residency.

[CFS Klopas]

Cadence is correct, no legal requirements to fly a US ensign in US waters. My post was more for traditional purposes.

[Pizzazz]

A related question: my current boat is US documented and owned by my wife who is a US citizen. I am not a citizen yet, just a permanent resident. What flag should I fly and can I go from Southern California to Mexico and back if my wife is not on board?

It seems the answer is negative at least until I become a US citizen.

Thank you,
SV Pizzazz

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by wolfgal

It is my understanding that US citizenship is a requirement of obtaining Delaware registry.

You are correct.

However, a U.S. corporation has U.S. citizenship, even if it has 100% foreign owners.

A Delaware corporation has Delaware residence.

So Bob's your uncle.

The Coast Guard requirement that the OWNERS of a U.S. company which owns a boat ALSO be U.S. citizens is very unusual.


EDIT: Actually, you CAN document a vessel with the U.S. Coast Guard with foreign owners. I just looked it up. The requirement, to be exact, is that the Chairman, CEO and a majority of the Board are U.S. citizens. The issue is control, not ownership. It seems that the rule about 75% ownership by citizens only applies to commercial vessels.

See: https://usvesseldocumentation.org/faq/

So I would think it would be reasonably straightforward to set up a company and hire U.S. citizens (I think two is enough in most states, maybe even one) to manage it on behalf of the foreign owner. This kind of service is not that expensive.

If you are a foreigner and already have your boat in a Delaware corp, you would just need to change the articles to have a one-man Board and hire someone. Then you file for Coast Guard documentation on behalf of the Delaware corporation.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

A related question: my current boat is US documented and owned by my wife who is a US citizen. I am not a citizen yet, just a permanent resident. What flag should I fly and can I go from Southern California to Mexico and back if my wife is not on board?

It seems the answer is negative at least until I become a US citizen.

Thank you,
SV Pizzazz

Of course you can, if you have a document from your wife authorizing you to operate the vessel.



U.S. documented vessel must wear a U.S. ensign and nothing else.

[Zven]

This is getting a bit boring, so let me de-rail the discussion here ...

The same question arises elsewhere in the world.

My boat is registered at Langkawi, which is not a country. It is not a state either. And it doesn't have a flag. So what do people do?

For the most part, they fly the flag of Malaysia, which Langkawi is part of. This seems to be accepted, but I have not managed to find any clear rule about it.

There is also the flag of Kedah, which is the state where the island belongs. I did not see boats using that flag.

Some cheeky traders, though, have invited a "Langkawi flag" and they offer this to boaters. It is an amalgam of the Malaysia red ensign and some clipart depicting an eagle head. (Eagles are associated with the island.) So this is in use on some boats.

Of course in Asia nobody really cares too much.

[Kelkara]

Originally Posted by Zven

My boat is registered at Langkawi, which is not a country. It is not a state either. And it doesn't have a flag. So what do people do?

For the most part, they fly the flag of Malaysia, which Langkawi is part of. This seems to be accepted, but I have not managed to find any clear rule about it.

Google is your friend:
Langkawi International Yatcht Registry Act 2003

41. (1) A Langkawi yacht shall possess Malaysian nationality.
(2) The Langkawi yacht shall fly the national colours that shall be the red ensign, with such modification as may be approved by the Director General.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by CFS Klopas

Cadence is correct, no legal requirements to fly a US ensign in US waters. My post was more for traditional purposes.

I wonder if a yachts men's ensign can even been found for purchase today?
It had no significant value other than at the yacht club. I'm sure the Commodores Yacht flew it at regattas.

[lordgeoff]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I assume the boat only has state registration as USCG Documentation is limited to US Citizens.

To a degree, you are playing in a gray area as you are not nationally registered/documented at all (though many jurisdictions will accept the state registration)
- In most cases (US Citizen on US state registered boat), there is no conflict and all evidence is it's a US boat that should fly the US flag.
- In this case, you have state (not national) registration and non-US citizenship (not sure if a legal resident has an impact). If you had no registration, the owner's citizenship would likely be the determining factor.

In reality, other than a debate over technicalities, no one is likely to make a big deal of it in US waters.

USCG Documentation is only available to owners who are US citizens.
A yacht showing a home port in Delaware and flying the US flag overseas is most likely owned by an Delaware Corporation. (LLC)
This yacht CAN be USCG Documented if the majority of the shareholders of the Delaware Corporation are US Citizens. Otherwise the yacht does not have USCG Documentation. No biggie. The yachts details are documented by Delaware.
It’s a US Yacht so it flys the US Flag. It can’t sail into Europe or wherever showing a Delaware flag.
It is handy to keep a copy of the USCG Documentation if one of the previous owners was US Citizen. It help to verify the yachts measurements and the blue water stamps always look nice.

[contrail]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

So what? What other nationality can the boat have, other than that of the COUNTRY in which it is registered?

Most Swedish yachts aren't registered in any way, anywhere. They wear Swedish ensigns, and are obligated to do so, even if the owners are American.

Ships have nationality just like people do. Just because you don't have a passport, doesn't mean you're not American.

Belize is right about this. There are very strict regulations on nationality of ownership of US documented vessels.....think it goes back to a section of the Jones Act, but I am not sure. These regulations also require the owners of a corporation that owns a documented boat to conform to the nationality requirements.

So, it's an interesting question!

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by lordgeoff

USCG Documentation is only available to owners who are US citizens.
A yacht showing a home port in Delaware and flying the US flag overseas is most likely owned by an Delaware Corporation. (LLC)
This yacht CAN be USCG Documented if the majority of the shareholders of the Delaware Corporation are US Citizens. Otherwise the yacht does not have USCG Documentation. No biggie. The yachts details are documented by Delaware.
It’s a US Yacht so it flys the US Flag. It can’t sail into Europe or wherever showing a Delaware flag.
It is handy to keep a copy of the USCG Documentation if one of the previous owners was US Citizen. It help to verify the yachts measurements and the blue water stamps always look nice.

Just a small correction -- as posted above, a yacht owned by a U.S. corporation does NOT need to have any U.S. shareholders at all provided it's not used for commercial purposes. It just has to have U.S. Chairman, CEO, and a majority of U.S. citizen Board members.

If the vessel is used for certain commercial purposes, then 75% (not a majority) of the shareholders have to be U.S. citizens.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by contrail

Belize is right about this. There are very strict regulations on nationality of ownership of US documented vessels.....think it goes back to a section of the Jones Act, but I am not sure. These regulations also require the owners of a corporation that owns a documented boat to conform to the nationality requirements.

So, it's an interesting question!

That's interesting!

I wouldn't think that Belize would have any right to question the nationality of a validly Coast Guard documented vessel, whoever the shareholders are.

But maybe what it means is that they don't recognize U.S. nationality of boats NOT CG documented UNLESS the ultimate owners are U.S. citizens. I guess that could be possible if it doesn't contradict U.S. law. I can see how the Jones Act might figure in there.

[Cadence]

What flag do South Africans fly. They have no registration, or didn't. Most seem to fly the flag or the Netherlands because of dual citizenship at birth. At one time the SA flag was not popular in some parts of the world, doing a circumnavigation.