Be Careful with U.S. Customs -- A Cautionary Tale

[cyan]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

The state uses propaganda to reinforce the last point, and surprisingly many people, even intelligent ones, believe it. Patriotism is a warm, fuzzy, pleasant feeling which is irresistible to many people.

I agree entirely, except that perhaps a few of us with a little remaining old-fashioned patriotism are rooting for this entire banana republic style mess to be outlawed. The encouraging bit is that there are advocacy groups all across the political spectrum (ACLU, Heritage Foundation, etc) who have banded together in an unprecedented bipartisan push to the US Congress to reform this horrible practice, expressing "bipartisan indignation".



There are news reports that predict the Supreme Court is simply waiting for the right lawsuit to come their way so that they can outlaw this government scam for good.


Personally, I have faith in Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, who seems to be eagerly awaiting a case to stomp out this stuff. (the previous such case was bad for technical reasons)
Call me an optimist, but I do believe the broken system will get fixed...

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by cyan

I agree entirely, except that perhaps a few of us with a little remaining old-fashioned patriotism are rooting for this entire banana republic style mess to be outlawed. The encouraging bit is that there are advocacy groups all across the political spectrum (ACLU, Heritage Foundation, etc) who have banded together in an unprecedented bipartisan push to the US Congress to reform this horrible practice, expressing "bipartisan indignation".



There are news reports that predict the Supreme Court is simply waiting for the right lawsuit to come their way so that they can outlaw this government scam for good.


Personally, I have faith in Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, who seems to be eagerly awaiting a case to stomp out this stuff. (the previous such case was bad for technical reasons)
Call me an optimist, but I do believe the broken system will get fixed...

Let's hope.

[longjonsilver]

Originally Posted by GS3

America has become the land of secret government lists, secret warrants, gag orders, unchecked abuse by the authorities with no recourse by the abused individual. I am old enough to remember when it was the Soviet Union who was evil precisely because they did all these things. Things have changed a lot since I was young.

Well said

[john61ct]

https://www.thenation.com/article/ra...-america-fear/

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by john61ct

https://www.thenation.com/article/ra...-america-fear/

Yep, and I am sure a lot of the non american world is more afraid of America than the other so called bad folk out there.

[Seymore]

Thank you very much for this thread.

[Seymore]

Here's another one....

Ontario woman arrested, jailed in U.S. for driving with a Canadian licence | CBC News

[john61ct]

That was just a mistake, sheer stupidity, not really comparable

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by john61ct

That was just a mistake, sheer stupidity, not really comparable

Yes, not really comparable, but also chilling -- it shows the aggressiveness of the American LEO culture in dealing with harmless people, and in this case coupled with profound ignorance. Handcuffing and jailing a university student because of a driver's license! By the time she was in the station, enough people were involved to clear up the officer's mistake about the validity of the Canadian license, which means the only offense was not being able to present the original paper copy of her passport (she showed a copy of it on her phone). Yet the wheels of law enforcement continued to grind on and on, her car was impounded, she was detained and not allowed to call the Canadian consulate.

And the end of the whole nightmare, the judge said: "In this case, the justice system worked and for that everyone should be thankful." What?! That's how the justice system is supposed to "work"? Really?

I have driven in probably every country in Europe; East and West, for probably hundreds of thousands of miles using a foreign driver's license. Not in my wildest dreams could I expect to ever be treated like that. The difference is that in this driver's license case -- there is some kind of presumption that she was a criminal, and that when she managed to prove that she was not, after being cuffed and jailed etc. etc., that was the justice system "working". Being cuffed and arrested for no good reason -- like having your life savings grabbed -- is no big deal -- acceptable situation -- provided only you are given some kind of chance to prove that it was a mistake.


And this is actually a common feature of the Kazazi case. In civilization, the justice system does not treat innocent people like criminals without a good reason. If a police officer in France or Latvia or Russia stops me on the road and I present a driver's license, and I've forgotten my passport at home, I can be pretty sure that showing a copy of the passport on my phone plus at most, the officer calling the station to check the database, will get me off (and yes this has happened to me a couple of time over the last decades living abroad). It is an extreme measure to cuff and jail someone for having the passport in the wrong form. And if an overly aggressive officer did take me in for such a non-crime, I would be pretty sure that in any normal country, the chief or supervisor would say to him -- what are you doing? What's this guy done? Come on, don't you have criminals to chase? At most would make a phone call or two to check on me, and let me go. But here we see the whole system, including the judge, apparently quite satisfied to have law enforcement resources used in this way, without the slightest thought as to the injustice of putting that poor girl through that ordeal, for nothing.

It's a cultural issue I think.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by CarlF

Well, the first problem is the guy didn't speak English, I doubt the CBP has an Albanian speaker standing by on the 800 number.

The second problem is they would have told him that the form (FinCEN 105) has to be be filled out and delivered to CBP. You can't do this on the phone. The form is also only in English.

I travel a lot overseas for pleasure and business. Why put up with the hassle of the form? I have a couple of Fidelity ATM cards that let me withdraw $2000 a day with no fee or exchange rate uplifts at any bank ATM. If I need to send more to someone, I can order a wire sent to their bank account with no wire fee from my mobile phone.

I agree with the concern about US security since 9/11 - including the CG's heavily armed "safety inspection" without probable cause. And I give substantial amounts to the ACLU each year. But everything about this guy and his trip smells fishy. Why did they search his bag? I doubt three bundles of cash wouldn't show up on airport scanners. There's more to this story than the guy's lawyer is saying.

My Canadian credit card does not work about 30% of the time in the US (you guys are way behind the curve with chip/PIN stuff), it does not work 75% of the time in Bahamas and it never works in Cuba.

My Canadian debit card in Canadian dollars is useless outside of Canada.
I have watched foreign ATM's eat the card of more than one unsuspecting foreigner. Cash is mandatory for cruising outside of your own waters.

[AlfOuterspace]

Sadly so true!

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Yes, not really comparable, but also chilling -- it shows the aggressiveness of the American LEO culture in dealing with harmless people
...
It's a cultural issue I think.

On all that I whole-heartedly agree.

The LEO culture is ever more that of an occupying military where they presume the local civilians are hostile.

And where their behaviour guarantees that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Focused not on their supposed big-picture goals, but on trying to force powerless civilians to submit without question.

A particularly weird cultural artifact, in most US jurisdictions it is legal for officials to have sex with those in their custody and have it called consensual.

https://www.thecut.com/2018/03/new-y...r-custody.html

https://www.eastbayexpress.com/Seven...uap-fall-apart

[Southern Star]

Get a USD credit card and a debit card on a USD account at a Canadian bank - works in the US, the Bahamas and everywhere else USD are accepted. In addition, when you buy US dollars in amounts over $10k to deposit in your account, you get a much better exchange rate than you will on your Cdn dollar credit card.

Brad

[TrentePieds]

Quote ex Dockhead #279: ”It's a cultural issue I think.”

Precisely – and that is why I suggested an examination of the etiology of “the American Disease”.

Dockhead's reply to that (#269) was, unfortunately, only further comments about the symptoms. We denizens of the Free World need not chew that particular cabbage again. Like a flock of docile ungulates we've been doing that for, what is it now - seventy-odd years? :-) What the world, free and unfree alike, needs is that America should embark on a cure for what ails her, but that will require a thorough and honest examination of the etiology.

I wish to thank John for #274 containing the link to the article in The Nation. I noted that the article is datelined 06 June 2017. I take it, therefore, that John had saved it because the matters discussed in it are of as much concern to him as they are to me, and as they must be to every honourable man and woman living under Pax Americana. I trust that everyone participating in this discussion, or even just following the thread, is aware of the historical significance of 06 June!

Some of you will be aware that our Prime Minister Justin Trudeau – of whom I am no fan – was interviewed on CNN just a few days ago and made the point, with which I agree, that claiming, as Trump is doing, that Canada's trade relationship with the US constitutes a “security risk” for the US is nothing less than an insult. Those of you who have a reasonable grasp of the history of Canada—US relations, particularly since 1941, will understand immediately why we Canadians hold that view. It is hardly necessary to belabour that point, but I think it is apposite to point out that for Canada to fear the US is perfectly rational and, indeed, essential to OUR securtty.

I cannot imagine that there is any other nation on earth that could have both the desire and the sheer ability to transgress against Canadian sovereignty. But is it not difficult to imagine that the US might augment her economic sanctions (though we mustn't call them that) historically applied to Canada with military power. Back in 2016 during Trump's candidacy I held, with rue, that his election would be a boon to the world. His election, I thought, would show those who might be ignorant of it what America is really “made of”, and why we have feared her these seventy years since she became a “superpower”. I feel vindicated.

Please don't take my comments as an expression of “anti-Americanism” or as an expression of hate for America. They are, on the contrary, an expression of my hope that America may for her own sake come to grips with those aspects of her cultural Gestalt that make her such a trial, and even a danger, to her own people and to others throughout the world.

TP

[john61ct]

The first step toward any change is an admission there is a problem.

Like a big stupid toxic-masculine bully, whose attitude and behaviour "only" causes problems for Other People (he thinks) that's likely to never happen until things crash and burn around his ears.

It really is not that hard to just move overseas and pretend to be Canadian. And of course makes the ignorant "love it or leave it" pseudo-patriots happy.

Much better future for our kids as well.