Be Careful with U.S. Customs -- A Cautionary Tale

[Dockhead]

This is chilling:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...9Ug&ocid=wispr

Note that U.S. law enforcement agencies, including CBP, have broad powers, unlike in other civilized countries, to seize property from you for little or no reason.

And for sure, never carry large sums of cash across U.S. borders, even if you have scrupulously followed all of the rules!

[dwedeking2]

Dont have cash on you inside the US borders either (he was on a domestic flight before he got to the international flight which has reporting requirements).

[a64pilot]

This isn’t new at all and is not one of those things that came about after 911. Although I wouldn’t be surprised if it was strengthened.
I believe the genesis for this was the 1980’s and drug trafficking.
There is serious money in seizures, if your suspected of drug trafficking, you can lose your house, your car, Boat etc.
I used to live in Richmond Hill Ga, it’s a small town just before you get to Savannah on I95, they heavily policed I95 and every time they stopped a car with drugs in it, they got to keep any cash and of course the car. I believe if they stopped you and you had a bunch of cash, you lost it too.
Good luck getting it back.

The key here is I don’t believe they have to prove anything, they seize your property and it’s gone. I’m no lawyer, but it’s one of those things that bothers me greatly.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civi..._United_States

Even when I was a kid, everyone knew if you were caught spot lighting deer you would lose your gun and truck immediately, then face whatever the fine or punishment was.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

This is chilling:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...9Ug&ocid=wispr

Note that U.S. law enforcement agencies, including CBP, have broad powers, unlike in other civilized countries, to seize property from you for little or no reason.

And for sure, never carry large sums of cash across U.S. borders, even if you have scrupulously followed all of the rules!

Yeah, but...he DID violate US law by crossing with that much cash. Undeclared cash limit is $10K. This is the same in many countries...and they will confiscate the cash too.

Also, the Customs declaration you must fill out on entry requires you to declare any cash/negotiable securities over $10K...there's a clue.

However, a receipt with no $ amount sure looks sketchy.

For example, about $100K in cash and a sail boat were impounded in Belize a few years back for the same violation.

Hopefully the language issue will be treated as a mitigating circumstance and he can...eventually...get his cash back.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Yeah, but...he DID violate US law by crossing with that much cash. Undeclared cash limit is $10K. This is the same in many countries...and they will confiscate the cash.

Way I read it, he violated no law, did not yet leave the US and wasn’t getting on the airplane to leave the US.
That is when you have to declare the money, he knew that and was going to comply. He was on a flight originating and terminating within the US, and there is no requirement to declare cash.
He was detained for acting suspiciously, and they took his money, cause they could.
He hasn’t been charged, nor will he be charged, cause there is nothing to charge him with.
Their whole contention is that if you have that much cash, your doing something illegal. That’s it, nothing more.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Way I read it, he violated no law, did not yet leave the US and wasn’t getting on the airplane to leave the US.
That is when you have to declare the money, he knew that and was going to comply. He was on a flight originating and terminating within the US, and there is no requirement to declare cash.
He was detained for acting suspiciously, and they took his money, cause they could.
He hasn’t been charged, nor will he be charged, cause there is nothing to charge him with.
Their whole contention is that if you have that much cash, your doing something illegal. That’s it, nothing more.

Wasnt clear to me from the article if he had crossed or not. I assume its not a crime on a domestic flight, there is no declaration form, but sure looks fishy.

Travelling by any mode with that much cash is an invitation from trouble...either from officials/criminals (sometimes one in the same, maybe they just saw an opportunity).

Regardless, it sux for him, hope he can work it out.

[Eder]

Many people have dropped the USA as a destination for a holiday in the last few years including me...breaks my heart though.

[a64pilot]

He will get it back if there is enough publicity about it, or most of it anyway. Some of it has apparently already disappeared.
An issue is the government is charging the cash with wrong doing, not the owner and the real catch 22 is I believe the burden of proof is on him to prove the money was not involved in any illegal activity.
Read the link I posted, you don’t have as many “rights”as you thought, and a whole lot of what can be done to you is up to the discretion of the LEO. Reason I treat them as if the were rattlesnakes, cause they can bite.
By them I mean both TSA and CBP, neither are really LEO’s in my way of thinking, many are fools, just fools that can cause you a lot of grief.

I had the CBP in Key West seize one of the two mosquito control airplanes the Cayman Islands owns, she demanded a Customs Bond, something that could not be issued, cause the aircraft was US manufactured and a Customs Bond is only for items manufactured outside of the US, purpose of the Bond is to ensure the vessel can’t get into the US and disappear without paying import taxes, but if it’s US manufactured, there is no import tax.
Trust me I tried to purchase a bond, from more than one source.
She kept it for most of a month, it literally took the British crown showing interest for her to turn the aircraft loose.
I cleared out in Ft Pierce and never exported an aircraft through Key West. The CBP in Ft Pierce were a different breed, always respectful and nice, if you were of course.
I have always yes sir and no mam to them, treated them with respect and it’s often not returned, but never let them get the best of you, you will lose that peeing contest.

[hpeer]

It’s a known money maker for police departments. Not all are abusers but some are.

Hard to understand how such nonsense is allowed to continue in a civilized country.

Ooops!

[Scotty Kiwi]

It is clear what happened.

NZ has similar laws with which I am very familiar (professionally), called "Proceeds of Crime Act (1991)" and the "Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act (2009). UK, Australia also, so I guess most Western countries.

The authorities in NZ do not need to prove anything at all in order to confiscate assets which they suspect are the result of criminal activity, or even are an indirect result from the profits of criminal activity. They only need to "suspect", and on that basis can seize assets and later have the seizure "authorised" by a court, without the knowledge of the suspected criminal.

The law was originally promoted as a tool to beat well financed drug gangs (which we do have) and terrorist organisations (which we don't seem to have). But its been extended to all people, all kinds of suspicion, and many kinds of crime. For example, in a little know case here of a business owner suspected of tax evasion. Authorities froze and restrained his assets, cash, and the business itself. This give them the ability to deny the accused person access to the funds that they now need to pay a lawyer to defend themselves.

Yes it really it chilling, to use Dockhead's phrase.

Reading the article carefully, in this case, the "defendant" was going through the Cleveland Airport carry on baggage security check, his $58,000 cash was found, and even though it says, he had documentation showing it was withdrawn from a bank, he could not answer their questions at the time, and under the way this law is currently being interpreted, this alone is grounds for "suspicion of criminal activity". The article does not go to discuss the declaration of cash of more than $10,000, and nor did the "suspected person" even have an opportunity to make that declaration. He was not even at an international departure point.

Perhaps if he also had details with him of how he earned the cash over the years, and all bank transactions, but that can get called a forgery at the tie of confiscation.

So yes, this is relevant for Cruisers. They may feel a need to a carry cash or weapons, and who may be "suspected" simply by being Cruisers and having "smuggling tools (ie a boat) of the crime of smuggling.

At this stage in the development of this law, there appears to be NO SAFE WAY AROUND IT. If they make there mind up, you are stuffed.

Yes - chilling.

[a64pilot]

Sort of seems also to answer the question of how much cash should I carry?

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Eder

Many people have dropped the USA as a destination for a holiday in the last few years including me...breaks my heart though.

+1. I worked as an international flight attendant for over 20 years, visited the states regularly and was intending to partake of an extended holiday wandering around the good old USA for 6 or so months and then possibly buying a relatively inexpensive boat to do the islands for a few months longer.
I have now retired and after 911 I saw such a change in the officialdom within the USA that I too have revisited that plan and now intend to go nowhere near there.
To a certain extent it is my loss, I know, however I think it is a greater loss to the USA, I am but one of many!

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Sort of seems also to answer the question of how much cash should I carry?

No more than you can afford to lose.

[Scotty Kiwi]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

+1. I worked as an international flight attendant for over 20 years, visited the states regularly and was intending to partake of an extended holiday wandering around the good old USA for 6 or so months and then possibly buying a relatively inexpensive boat to do the islands for a few months longer.
I have now retired and after 911 I saw such a change in the officialdom within the USA that I too have revisited that plan and now intend to go nowhere near there.
To a certain extent it is my loss, I know, however I think it is a greater loss to the USA, I am but one of many!

I agree completely. Same with transiting. Where in the 90's we were nearly always via LA, and using the services of US airlines, hotels and restaurants.

Now we go, variously via Vancouver, Doha, UAE, KL, Singapore, Shanghai etc, using non US airlines. The reason has been more about the ridiculous holdups and attitudes at US transit airports since 911, than it has been about the shocking service on the US airlines themselves.

Desire to avoid US pacific territories when back cruising again too. Guam, Hawaii, Pagopago. Just in case. Seems to be a growing unfairness = risk. But I might be being unfair in my perception. I don't really know, but sure as s*!t it all makes me feel a bit queasy.

[SuW]

Customs and immigration officers in most jurisdictions have considerable arbitrary powers. Most of us don't notice most of the time because we aren't affected.
Then once in a while, you get treated really badly and there's basically nothing you can do but keep your cool...
This applies to Canadian customs too.