Beware Government Misinformation

[alctel]

Wouldn't you just be able to reapply for OHIP when you reentered the country? It's three months residency I believe, and residency is defined as 'ties to the province' - i.e work, a primary residency etc etc

They are also not really super strict - when I left BC for 18 months to go cruising and returned, I mentioned I probably wasn't covered and the dude went 'do you still have your driving license/health card? Is it expired? Great, you are still covered.' It's way less effort for them to look the other way re: returns as long as you don't need to reapply for a health card/license while out the country, and the border people don't really talk to the provinces much.

[Nomad57]

Originally Posted by alctel

Wouldn't you just be able to reapply for OHIP when you reentered the country? It's three months residency I believe, and residency is defined as 'ties to the province' - i.e work, a primary residency etc etc

Quite so. The problem is, for those three months, you're not covered. When you're not covered, is when stuff happens. The other problem is, if something happens on the way back up the ICW, during months 7 or 8. The "Out of Country" medical coverage that you've bought and paid for will not cover you, if your provincial coverage is not in effect. (An easy out for them.) I could not, would not, put my estate to that kind of risk. Things happen. I once was run over by a boat at hull speed while snorkeling in an area where people swim. The driver was not watching where he was going. I heard some people yelling, and turned just in time to see the boat coming, and push myself away from the approaching bow.

Originally Posted by alctel

They are also not really super strict - when I left BC for 18 months to go cruising and returned, I mentioned I probably wasn't covered and the dude went 'do you still have your driving license/health card? Is it expired? Great, you are still covered.' Apparently, this is because as a Canadian citizen in Canada you need to be covered by SOMETHING so it's way less effort for them to look the other way re: returns as long as you don't need to reapply for a health card/license while out the country

Ontario may be different. Too risky for me. Ending up in an American hospital without coverage is how people end up homeless. Not for me.

Nomad

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by BugzyCan

When I lived in Portugal, as a foreigner, I had to leave the country every 6 months, so we used to hop on a train to Spain, get on the boat to cross the river, being sure to get our exit stamp, and entry stamp as we entered, then we turn around, hop on that same ferry back, and get our newly dated entry stamp back in, and we were good for another 6 months. We did this for many years, no issues. Why not just pause your trip someplace, fly back to Ontario, maybe you have to stay there a few months?, and then return?

The only trains I know to Spain are the night train from Lisbon to Madrid and the train to Vigo.. and neither involve getting a boat to cross a river.. it must have been well over 30 years ago as both countries have been in Schengen since 1991.. a lot has changed since then including centralized data bases so everytime you check into a marina it's data base will throw up any flags as your details are entered.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Nomad57

Mike,
Extended absence provisions were added to Regulation 552 in 1999. When you say, "newer rolling exemption", I'm afraid I don't know what that means. There is no mention of it on their website at:

It used to be that one could extend their OHIP coverage for travel outside of Ontario for up two years, but this was a one-time deal. Use it once, and that was it.

At some point -- which seems more recent than 2011, but maybe I'm just getting old and time is compressing -- the provice went to a rolling eligibility system where you could take a two-year absence, but then could come back and essentially rebuild your eligibility for subsequent extended absences. According to this OHIP fact sheet: https://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/publ...ocs/travel.pdf

You may also be eligible for continuous OHIP coverage during a longer absence when you are away from Ontario for vacation or other reasons for up to 2-years at a time which may be taken as a full two-year absence or as two one-year absences. To be eligible for continuous OHIP coverage during your first absence of this type, you must typically be physically present in Ontario for at least 153 days in each of the 2 consecutive years before the absence.

You may be eligible to maintain your OHIP coverage during subsequent absences of this type. To be eligible for a further Vacation/Other Reason absence, you must meet the physical presence requirements in Ontario for at least 153 days in each of the 5 consecutive years before each subsequent absence.

So prior to this system there was an option to be out of the province for up to two years, but it was a one-time thing.

Originally Posted by Nomad57

I did specifically mention the 212 day restriction, (probably more than once, in these forums) and no one ever corrected my misapprehension. That's why I never questioned it.

The 212 day limit in an 12-month period (not just a calendar year) has always been the standard for OHIP. The 2-year absence option has also been available for as long as I've been looking into this, which goes back a couple of decades. At some point it changed from one-time service to one that could be recharged as per the above quote.

[Nomad57]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

It used to be that one could extend their OHIP coverage for travel outside of Ontario for up two years, but this was a one-time deal. Use it once, and that was it.

At some point -- which seems more recent than 2011, but maybe I'm just getting old and time is compressing -- the provice went to a rolling eligibility system where you could take a two-year absence, but then could come back and essentially rebuild your eligibility for subsequent extended absences. According to this OHIP fact sheet: https://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/publ...ocs/travel.pdf

So prior to this system there was an option to be out of the province for up to two years, but it was a one-time thing.



The 212 day limit in an 12-month period (not just a calendar year) has always been the standard for OHIP. The 2-year absence option has also been available for as long as I've been looking into this, which goes back a couple of decades. At some point it changed from one-time service to one that could be recharged as per the above quote.

Mike,
The pdf you link to is dated February 2012. It outlines the extended absences, with a five-year period before each subsequent absence. This may well be what I was informed of at the time I made my inquiries. I really don't recall exactly when that was. I also don't recall being informed about the one-time extension. I remember being told six months, with an one time extension to seven. I used to have a pornographic memory, but that is no longer the case.

With the one-time availability, I might well have made the trip once, if I had had the good sense to keep our boat. We had sold it in 2006, with the idea of moving onwards and upwards, but the best laid plans of mice and men...

Mike, I can't thank you enough for your feedback on this, especially the .pdf. The letter I got from the ministry led me to believe that the current situation dated back to 1999. The thought that I had "missed the boat" unnecessarily has caused me some profound disappointment.

Warmest regards, and deepest gratitude.

Terry

[pcmm]

Its unfortunate that you came up short on the correct info. The extensions have been around for ages and are well documented. Go to any sailing sound seminar in Canada and it will be discussed you can get 2 1 year extensions or a single 2 year from what I know when I was planning my trip.

Yes 90% of the time the govt worker you are dealing with doesn't know very well at all what the correct answer is, you have to keep asking. I had a terrible time getting the license for my dinghy in prep for my trip south. (the ON12345... numbers) I kept getting different answers, from you don't need it, you can't get it.. why would you want it on a dinghy, etc. etc. You have to do your research. the Ontario govt website doesn't help much either. You really need to go into the office and bug people to get the answer

We got 1 year extensions in 2017 when we went south.. When the trip had to get cancelled, we went to Service Ontario and got a "refund" on the remainder of the extension.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Nomad57

Mike, I can't thank you enough for your feedback on this, especially the .pdf. The letter I got from the ministry led me to believe that the current situation dated back to 1999. The thought that I had "missed the boat" unnecessarily had left me in deep despair, with some very dark thoughts. You're a lifesaver, and I mean it.

Warmest regards, and profound gratitude.

Very kind of you to say Terry. And very glad the info helped. Sounds like you made the very best choice you could at the time. And I completely agree, the regs are unnecessarily confusing and restrictive.

Canadians are proud of our publicly funded healthcare system, but it is quite restrictive when it comes to travel. And it's important to stress that our residential requirements demand that people being physically located in the province, not just in the country. Ontarians can lose their OHIP eligibility even by travelling within our own country.

[Nomad57]

And the kicker is, they don't even pay for out of country medical care anymore. The letter from the ministry explained that the restrictions were in place to prevent people coming to Ontario to get the coverage, and then actually living elsewhere. (Ontarians of convenience.)

I dunno what this has to do with someone who has lived here all of their lives, has paid taxes for most of their lives, and continues to do so. Their letter describes the regulations as "generous", which they are (now), but not in time for us.

If we had bought a motor home, all would have been fine. Travel by boat was another matter.

Terry

[Nomad57]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Its unfortunate that you came up short on the correct info. The extensions have been around for ages and are well documented. Go to any sailing sound seminar in Canada and it will be discussed you can get 2 1 year extensions or a single 2 year from what I know when I was planning my trip.

Yes 90% of the time the govt worker you are dealing with doesn't know very well at all what the correct answer is, you have to keep asking. I had a terrible time getting the license for my dinghy in prep for my trip south. (the ON12345... numbers) I kept getting different answers, from you don't need it, you can't get it.. why would you want it on a dinghy, etc. etc. You have to do your research. the Ontario govt website doesn't help much either. You really need to go into the office and bug people to get the answer

We got 1 year extensions in 2017 when we went south.. When the trip had to get cancelled, we went to Service Ontario and got a "refund" on the remainder of the extension.

What you say is true, now. In 2011, the situation was different. (See Mike's .pdf).


Terry

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by skipmac

In the US you can call an IRS help line with questions about your taxes BUT they state clearly that the advise given is not guaranteed correct and if wrong, you will be held responsible if you act on that advise.

This principle holds true for Customs rules here in Oz, too. You are held responsible both if their web site is wrong and if you are given wrong advice over the phone. It can be VERY difficult to get the right info.

Ann

[chrisr]

there is a govmint radio & print add here in oz that always annoys me

the add states that 'if you are alone on a boat you must wear a life jacket...it's the law'

well that isn't the law. the law involves only refers to particularly size of boat, but they conveniently omit this

makes you wonder how many other govmint adds are wrong ?

ok, off my soapbox now and back to sleep

cheers,

[ChrisJHC]

Originally Posted by chrisr

makes you wonder how many other govmint adds are wrong ?

What about “Speed Kills” (on the road).
Umm, no it doesn’t!
It does exacerbate the consequence of an accident, but by itself speed doesn’t kill.

(And to make it obvious, I’m not recommending that anyone break the speed limit or drive faster than warranted by the prevailing conditions)

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

This principle holds true for Customs rules here in Oz, too. You are held responsible both if their web site is wrong and if you are given wrong advice over the phone. It can be VERY difficult to get the right info.

Ann

Hi, when requesting customs or quarantine information in Aus ALWAYS ask for a verifying email ascertaining the fact as presented in the phone call. Guaranteed to source the correct information because the paper trail can prove to be most embarrassing.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by chrisr

there is a govmint radio & print add here in oz that always annoys me

the add states that 'if you are alone on a boat you must wear a life jacket...it's the law'

well that isn't the law. the law involves only refers to particularly size of boat, but they conveniently omit this

makes you wonder how many other govmint adds are wrong ?

ok, off my soapbox now and back to sleep

cheers,

I always assumed all of them are - never ever thought they might be factual. Why would they be

They are only exceeded by election ads...

Wottie picks up his soapbox and

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by ChrisJHC

What about “Speed Kills” (on the road).
Umm, no it doesn’t!
It does exacerbate the consequence of an accident, but by itself speed doesn’t kill.

(And to make it obvious, I’m not recommending that anyone break the speed limit or drive faster than warranted by the prevailing conditions)

This is true. Traffic accident studies I've read find that it is the erratic and aggressive drivers who are the main cause of problems. It's the people who weave in traffic, who tailgate, who are always trying to get ahead of everyone; these are the ones who screw it up for everyone.

However, selfish drivers also tend to be the speeders, so speed is used as a proxy for these idiots. It's far easier to identify a speeder, and get the evidence to make the charge stick.