Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

[atoll]

Originally Posted by captainKJ

71 post OF WHAT????

OK here is a something to think about. A skipper has a boat in the bahamas. Friend fly's out for weekend. Joins boat as crew but has a return ticket. Misses the flight date for the return. Next available flight is 3 days away. Skipper says he can stay on the boat till then.

While waiting at the dock trying to get a new flight home the boat sinks.

WHO is responsible for the hotel room to put the friend up in till his flight leaves ???

Also can the friend sue the skipper for not getting him into port ontime for his flight.

it would depend if they were on the crew list or not,as far as immigration are concerned.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

... and that's why we buy insurance, and let them fend off the idiots. . But this is outside of the "captain's responsibility" that we're discussing, yes?

Not to me.

[SS Little-Devil]

No worries guys. She flies out Tuesday morning. This topic sure created some good convo though and it's made me much aware of what kind of risks are involved. Thanks everyone.

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond

I'd feel really strange if people started calling me Jon...

Vic

A rare spray of coffee on my keyboard.

That was funny.

Can we all be Jon now?

Thanks Jon (I mean Vic...)

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by Capt Phil

I may have mentioned this before but my one and only major crew problem occurred about 1 1/2 days north of Cabo on a delivery north a few years back. The crew member lost it due to going off his meds and I returned immediately to Cabo san Lucas, bought him a one way ticket stateside and cab fare to the airport and said goodbye.
Considering the cost of doing otherwise and all the hassles with 'migration', etc., I felt it was the cheapest and most expedient course of action.
I recall researching maritime law once I got back and think I discovered that paid crew need to be returned to the port at which they were engaged or words to that effect.
Sailed shorthanded north to the US and just sucked it up. Capt Phil

Good point about meds. That is something I would like to know about before taking on crew for a passage. What meds and what condition are wee trying to control. "Yes I am a nice guy but I turn into an ax murderer when I'm off my meds." would be a decision point for me...

In regards to the whole air ticket thing we are going back and forth but...

If someone flies themself into a country, it is actually the air carrier who is resonsible to assure arrival conditions are met including visa and onward ticket if required. Airlines are forced to take people back quite frequently. Check in staff get spanked for that error.

If a Skipper brings a group of people in on a boat, it is the skippers responsibility to make sure arrival conditions are met, including onward ticket, if required by the country. Immigration won't care who bought the onward ticket, crew or skipper, and that can be a private side agreement.

In this case the gal flew herself in. It was her air carrier's responsibility to assure arrival conditions are met. Once immigration let her in they have no real clue what she is up to. She could sleep in a hotel, youth hostel, a star on Hollywood blvd or a boat. She is responsible to leave at the limit of her arrival visa, not the hotel, youth hostel or boat owner. Although she might be able to keep sleeping on a star if she finds a shopping cart and an empty space.

I thought about the idea of tenancy, which is interesting but he visa would probably expire before you could complete California eviction proceeding - BTDT got the bloody t-shirt. Call INS for a faster solution but they are programmed to put her on a bus and take her to Tijuana...

[shamrock]

Dockhead is absolutely right about the insurance. Liability insurance is cheap coverage on boats, houses, cars. I have 300k on my boat and then an umbrella policy up to 1 million.

[SS Little-Devil]

Note to self: Do not read forum messages while on the Walmart crapper. Uncontrollable laughter from inside the stall might make other people in the restroom uncomfortable and be a bit embarrassing.

[lookoutnw]

Thank to all for their input.
Note: I have 'Ship's Articles'. It is a list of do's and dont's athat I have come up with.
Problem is there are too many people in this world with lawyers that are looking to make a buck.
Most courst here in the USA I believe still go by the rule ' A prudent person would/would not_______'. It just takes a bunch of people getting paid big bucks to sort it all out. I am trying to cover most issues in my ship's papers prior to getting crew. Also a note I understand, my boat is 'documented' and I am looking to get my 6 pax. Yes I understand the difference. But if a person is being paid, they are crew and are provided more luxuries. This is interesting, but I will not have anyone on my boat as 'paid crew'. I jsut have to get the rest of it figured out like so many others seem to be trying to figure since this post was started.
Thanks for all your input.

[Capt Phil]

Lookoutnw, my situation was a little different in that I was delivering boats up and down the coast and regularly had paid crew fly in to meet vessels from Canada to Costa Rica. One way tickets were the norm and as Ex-Calif pointed out, I asked one too few questions of a crew member I had not engaged before. Had I an inkling he was problematic, I would have not hire him but picked up a Mexican national and flown them home after the trip north.
I used a standard form of ships crew articles that I found in San Diego that outlines the responsibilities of crew and skipper, expectations and liabilities. It may have changed somewhat over the years but in the 90's it appeared sufficient. The most important issue was evaluating the cut of someones jib, personally, and having a solid set of personal recommendations from folks they sailed with before. I ALWAYS checked references. You can still get surprised as I was. Capt Phil

[SS Little-Devil]

Well the woman in question is no longer aboard. I have to admit I was very relieved when she left. It came down to her changing her flight and me asking her to leave the boat and stay in a hotel the night before.

Very spooky all the talk about my responsibilities for her as "captain, her telling me she was "technically" living aboard my boat and had given my mailing address and slip number to ASA to try and get work there. I explained she was just a guest and would not easily get a Visa to work, but...

Anyway, she's gone and after a few days to myself aboard I'm finally feeling at ease again.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Now she will come after you for Alimony.......

[captainKJ]

God riddance. Didn't lots of people tell you to get rid of her?????? From the start it sounded funky, glad it worked out ok for you.

[gpshephe]

Originally Posted by SS Little-Devil

Well the woman in question is no longer aboard. I have to admit I was very relieved when she left. It came down to her changing her flight and me asking her to leave the boat and stay in a hotel the night before.

Very spooky all the talk about my responsibilities for her as "captain, her telling me she was "technically" living aboard my boat and had given my mailing address and slip number to ASA to try and get work there. I explained she was just a guest and would not easily get a Visa to work, but...

Anyway, she's gone and after a few days to myself aboard I'm finally feeling at ease again.

If people make you feel ill at ease in your own home, they usually have a hidden agenda. I will not go sailing with someone I can't trust.

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by SS Little-Devil

Well the woman in question is no longer aboard. I have to admit I was very relieved when she left. It came down to her changing her flight and me asking her to leave the boat and stay in a hotel the night before.

Very spooky all the talk about my responsibilities for her as "captain, her telling me she was "technically" living aboard my boat and had given my mailing address and slip number to ASA to try and get work there. I explained she was just a guest and would not easily get a Visa to work, but...

Anyway, she's gone and after a few days to myself aboard I'm finally feeling at ease again.

Good outcome. Low confrontation level. Good thing she didn't get squrrely or aggressive.

DoJ - Alimony? How about in 9 months she shows up with.... Never mind...