Coast Guard procedures

[14murs14]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

I have lost some respect for the US Coast Guard.

Mrs. Flare and I were about 10nm downwind of this rescue. We heard all sides of the radio transmissions.

The S/V Entitled was the first on scene of 3 men in a life raft. Soon after S/V Evergreen was on scene. Here’s the report from the CG:

Coast Guard rescues 3 after fishing vessel sinks off Myrtle Beach | Coast Guard News

Just found this story online. No mention of Evergreen. (Entitled is a 52 ft. IP). The story was published 2 days ago.

Man recounts efforts to rescue sunken fishing boat crew. | Myrtle Beach Sun News

Only saw a few problems with the article. The CG helicopter was 9 minutes away not 9 miles. Entitled was asked not to take the survivors onboard due to the help arriving and the medical issue of one man in the life raft.

There was communication with the Maersk Weymouth whose Bridge Officer denied having hit anyone. The Captain was called to the bridge and the Maersk Weymouth was ordered to return to the scene which it did.

Entitled and M. Weymouth were told to remain on scene after the helo departed. Entitled informed the CG that he was singlehanding to Beaufort and wanted to get underway. The helo informed Entitled that he could continue to Beaufort. Maersk was told it could continue to Norfolk.

There were two flares fired. We looked back and saw both just on the horizon.

If we were the closest boat we would have turned and beat our way back. It would have taken 3 or 4 hours in my estimation.

Why I lost some respect:

Why no mention in the CG release that non CG mariners responded?

BTW in Beaufort We looked out to see Evergreen anchored next to us. I told them the news stories at the time made no mention of Entitled or Evergreen.

Certainly should have mentioned that good Sam's assisted. Not everyone want's their boat named in a press release, so unless the public affairs folks had contact info to reach you and did so they would probably leave the boat names uninvolved in the actual mishap out of it. Good job though, take this pat on the back from me.

[RobinScurr]

While the USCG does search and rescue, etc, their primary responsibility today is border security/national defense. Searching any vessel at any time is part of our border defenses against smuggling, both of contraband and people.

The U.S. Coast Guard Boarding Policy:
Title 14 section 89 of the United States Code authorizes the U.S. Coast Guard to board vessels subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, anytime, any place upon the high seas and upon any waterway over which the United States has jurisdiction, to make inquires, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures, and arrests. The U.S. Coast Guard does not require a warrant to conduct search, seizures, arrests over any United States Waterway or high seas. The U.S. Coast Guard also have full legal law enforcement power on any land under the control of the United States, as needed to complete any mission.

It is my understanding that there is NO expectation of privacy on a boat, even it is your home. It is not only the USCG that can search any vessel at any time, any law enforcement agency has the same right...

Amendment IV The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Over the years and many Supreme Court cases, the Fourth Amendment has been interpreted to mean that without a warrant or probable cause law enforcement can’t search your car, your office, your mountain cabin, your pocket, or your wood shed. According to the Constitution, law enforcement personnel can’t search anywhere in your private universe without probable cause or a warrant issued by a judge.

Except your boat: They can board your boat any time they please and look anywhere they want without warning, warrant, or cause, and they do so every day. This is called a “suspicionless search.”

This article spells it out pretty clearly.

https://www.sailfeed.com/2012/10/coa...rights-part-1/

Bottom line, if you boat, you will be searched from time to time. Law enforcement may call the search a "safety check," but that's just a friendly name for a suspicionless search. If you boat along one of our borders, it could be local LE, county sheriff, USCG, or USCBP. And along the border with Canada, there will probably be both US and Canadian personnel involved. (They share personnel and patrol together.) Before 9/11, they would have had side arms holstered only. Post-9/11, you will likely be watched closely by someone with an automatic weapon in hand and ready ... yikes!

[aeronautic1]

So you’re driving home from the bar and a law enforcement officer (which the USCG is) wants to pull you over. You say, I’ll meet you in my drive-way 2 miles down the road.

[crazyoldboatguy]

Originally Posted by aeronautic1

So you’re driving home from the bar and a law enforcement officer (which the USCG is) wants to pull you over. You say, I’ll meet you in my drive-way 2 miles down the road.

So, a leo wants to pull you over on a 2 lane bridge with no shoulder during rush hour traffic, in dense fog. Would you pull over?

[Semper Paratus]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

14murs14 when did you retire?
I ask as I think to some extent the mission of the USCG has changed.
I don’t like “Homeland Security” and don’t think the USCG should be in it. I think that is when their mission changed.

Well the USCG always been the red headed step child that nobody wants, per say. Dept of Treasury, Dept of Transportation, now homeland security. And they can not be in the DOD for legal reasons.

PS, it’s never the servicemen and women, they rarely have any decision to make. It’s the Civilian leadership, who most often has no idea that makes the decisions, it’s always been that way.
If you left it up to the soldiers, there would be no wars.

Why we do not have Coupes like others have.

I have never been boarded, but one night it was pretty clear they were going to, and the weather and sea state was bad. We were conversing on the radio and when asked my last port ,I didn’t say Key West. I made sure I said Boca Chica. I think that is the only reason they didn’t try to board me that night.
But I was concerned, I was going to object cause I didn’t want one of those kids in the water or getting hurt.

More than likely you was not boarded then cause of many reasons. They have many things that set up red flags to say Board or not Board. And weather also plays into it also. If you had said a Port in Columbia or Panama, you might have been boarded still.

Originally Posted by 14murs14

Retired just over a year ago. I largely agree with the homeland security piece, hated it since day one. Seems pretty pointless to spend huge amounts of money and training time becoming the 6th best navy in the world when we already have the first. I'm no fan of safety boardings either, or migrant interdiction, or marijuana interdiction; I'd have done nothing but SAR if I could have and luckily as a helo pilot that is mostly what I did. But you put on the uniform you do the mission you're told to do.

Yet without of the Safety Boardings you would been busier, and as a helo pilot you know how hard it is to do a rescue off of a S/V

Changes started coming around way before the USCG went into the Homeland Security. In the 90's 93-96 to be closer, due to Budget Cuts policy change on SAR. Unless it a Boat taking on Water and at risk of sinking or risk of Life they would be taken care by the Private Sector. We were heading into port for a mid patrol break, got diverted and then turned back around cause a Merchant was closer. The Merchant refused to tow or lift the S/V So the Master of the S/V was left to fend for himself.

By the way, I flew on 1 of the CG helo's, The next day flight when it returned was the last time it flew on it own. Landed to hard and was taken off the CUtter by Crane then flown back to San Diego in a C130. Never had a desire again. I keep my sea legs.

I would note that the boarding program has been around for decades and isn't considered a homeland security mission nor am I aware that it is significantly plussed up now vs 20 years ago. Boat and air crews assign time by mission at the end of every sortie, and time doing boarding generally goes toward one of the boater safety codes, not the homeland security code, which is a statutorily different mission (The CG has 11 different statutory missions, can be a challenge sometimes keeping them sorted). What probably is plussed up is the number of forums like this where stories heard from a friend of a friend can take on mythical proportions, so it may seem like they're more common.

What I hear of today's USCG though some changes been made but same as it was 20 years ago, 30 years ago and so forth.

Originally Posted by Bill Seal

Chick out this jackbooted dickhead DI and that will explain what's gone wrong. Back when I went through USCG boot (cripes! 60 years ago) it was all about learning and seamanship and not blind obediance USMC style'

I am sure it was the same when you were in and much harder. It only gotten easier over the years. I went through Cape May 34 years ago.

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I was surprised to find out that the highest drop out rate for any boot camp was the USCG.
Lowest? Believe it or not it’s the USMC.

USCG use to be and believe still is the 2nd Toughest Boot Camp. We never had a drop out, but had 1 reverted back a Company, and we gained 4 from being reverted. We also had 1 Failed Suicide attempt.

[a64pilot]

Things are different, drop out rate varies between 20 and 30% now, that is washout not reverted or whatever name the USCG uses.
They have the highest washout rate of any of the services. Personally I see that as a failure to train, not how tough they are, cause I seriously doubt the average guardsman is all that much tougher than the average Marine

Assumption is, they have a line of recruits at the door, no need to trying to save one, just put another one in his or her place.

[john61ct]

It's just a job not an adventure?

[Semper Paratus]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Things are different, drop out rate varies between 20 and 30% now, that is washout not reverted or whatever name the USCG uses.
They have the highest washout rate of any of the services. Personally I see that as a failure to train, not how tough they are, cause I seriously doubt the average guardsman is all that much tougher than the average Marine

Assumption is, they have a line of recruits at the door, no need to trying to save one, just put another one in his or her place.

That true

[valhalla360]

Looping back to the original question:

I haven't had to use it with the CG but we have with NY police boat that wanted to board for a safety inspection in short steep 4' waves. And this wasn't a rubber boat either.

We slowed down but kept moving (to maintain control).
When they didn't respond by radio, we yelled across to them from about 15' away.
They indicated it was a safety inspection.
I yelled back that the conditions weren't safe and immediately proceeded to pull out the various safety gear and display it from a distance for their view (life jackets, flare gun, sounded the horn, etc...).
I didn't wait for their response, just did it (what are they going to complain I showed them the safety gear they were asking to see?)
Polite but firm.

If they had insisted, I would have also suggested moving to a nearby calm area for safety reasons.

If they didn't accept that, I would have had the DW get out the bumpers while I got on the radio 16 and announced multiple times with a request for other boaters to confirm that we are boat (name) and location and that the local police jurisdiction is forcing us to undergo a safety inspection in unsafe conditions and have not accepted our suggestion to follow to a safe location. Police boat please respond and confirm your intentions. (again polite but firm)

A crowd is your friend (even on the radio). I'll bet 99% of the time, they back off and claim it was a misunderstanding (you might still get a extra check once in a safe location). If they do proceed to board and something happens, you have a much stronger case. Odd are if there are 4 guys on the CG boat, all of them agreeing not to lie about the radio call is a tough thing to accomplish. If there is a serious injury, odds good someone independent can be found to corroborate the radio message.

Again, everything firm but polite. Don't get sarcastic or nasty. Confirm that it's a safety inspection and they aren't pulling you over for something more serious. They really will have a tough time doing much more than being annoying.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Bill Seal

Chick out this jackbooted dickhead DI and that will explain what's gone wrong. Back when I went through USCG boot (cripes! 60 years ago) it was all about learning and seamanship and not blind obediance USMC style'

The culture of the organization is formed in these processes.

Someone in a position of authority treating a person in a weaker position with sadism.

So when that person in the weaker position gets his own authority, it's no mystery what results . . .

[CarlF]

I was boarded last week coming into New York Harbor. As always, the CG guys were completely professional and nice guys too. That said, this practice is likely illegal under the 4th amendment. It just needs the right case to go to the Supreme Court.

The CG and LEOs deputized by the CG have a right to board without probable cause. This is based on the original law establishing the Revenue Cutter Service in 1790. This was solely to search vessels for customs duty and smuggling. At the time, customs duties were the only source of revenue for the brand new Federal Government as there were no federal taxes on individuals or companies. Obviously, they had to have broad search powers to do their job.

When the Revenue Cutter Service turned into the Coast Guard, they kept this broad search power but applied it to much more than customs duties. Although lifejackets or pollution laws hadn't been invented in the 18th century, they expanded the reach of their power to this as well as drugs and terrorism.

While these are good law enforcement goals, the US Constitution was designed to limit law enforcement's intrusion on citizens - even for arguably good things. Can you imagine if you and your family could be pulled over in your car at anytime for a check of your car's brake pad safety?

The ACLU has a case now moving towards the Supreme court. Who knows, maybe this will be the case that changes things? In the meantime, you do have to let the CG board and they can do it anywhere they want.

[Shrew]

Under these circumstances I would have done the following:

1) Record the boarding vessel name

2) Hail the closest USCG station via VHF (not the vessel)

3) Advise of the situation and that you want to have recorded in the record that you are uncomfortable with the conditions and the risk and that you are officially requesting a safe location for the boarding to proceed.

4) If they still insist, request that their insistence to disregard your request also be entered into the record.

5) Should damage occur, take pictures and again also advise the shore station of the collision.

fire extinguishers and life jackets should not constitute a long series of phone calls, errands and paperwork on your part.

[Leo Ticheli]

I've been boarded once and the Coast Guard guys could not have been more professional or respectful. These are people who will risk their lives to save us; they are welcome on my boat anytime, anywhere.

Fair winds,

Leo

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by Leo Ticheli

I've been boarded once and the Coast Guard guys could not have been more professional or respectful. These are people who will risk their lives to save us; they are welcome on my boat anytime, anywhere.

Fair winds,

Leo

Nice. Do you show them your internet browsing history while they’re there?

[hellosailor]

Driving home? Ah, no. This is why only 20% of the people in America were ever supposed to be able to cast votes. The majority were considered unable to govern anything, let alone understand how to govern themselves.

Driving a car is governed by state license laws. They usually require you to follow all directions from a peace officer, a designated flagman, and certain others.

Driving a boat? Governed by entirely different codes. And if you are on a navigable waterway, also governed by the US CFR, which give you the right to tell the officer "Yeah, not now dear." And that USCG officer? Is not a peace officer, they're either a military officer (in time of war only) with limited power over citizens in the US, or in time of peace, they're an administrative agent, with the limited power to enforce sections of US code.

"Black cat, white cat, all same, catch mice." [Chairman Mao].
Not in this case.