COLREGS and vessels propelled by oars or paddles

[guyrj33]

In our small harbor, i've often remarked to SUPs and kayaks that they would be safer if they stayed to the side of the channel. Many didn't seem aware that they were in a channel. Those rowing dinghies mostly stay out of the channel, I suspect they are owners of boats moored in the harbor and understand the issues.

[Pete17C]

Originally Posted by tweitz

From my home dock I need to go out through a short, but narrow, winding, unmarked channel which happens to be where a lot of stand up paddlers and kayaks, including newbies, love to travel and learn. I am always ready on the horn to let them know I am coming, although I try to call to them instead if I can. My favorite is when they are mid channel and I toot the horn and the stand up paddler becomes disconcerted and falls off the paddle. Unfortunately, the paddlers don't understand that I can't just stop, that if I lose all way the wind will blow me out of the channel and aground. I have avoided them so far, but it isn't easy.

I think I found their problem

/I'm sure you meant board, just going for a laugh

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by David M

"including the limitations of the vessels involved" seems to be the answer Jammer.

Strongest hull will receive least damage
Sailing yacht against rowing shell/kayak - no contest

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Minnesail

However, the official City of Minneapolis rules are:

PB4-13. - Rowboats and canoes.
Rowboats and canoes must be kept out of the way of sailboats, and due diligence and caution must be used to avoid collisions with other boats. (Code 1960, As Amend., § 1030.130)

I've posted previously on how I find it amusing that Minneapolis has its own "colregs" that are different from the real COLREGS. It is my understanding that the way the federal law is written, the inland COLREGS preempt local and state laws and regulations.

[Montanan]

Sometimes rowboats lose control or missteer their boat or fail to see what is happening dead ahead because the rowers have their backs to the bow. Every boater should try to stay well clear of a row boat, whereas kayaks tend to be more capable of controlling and have better visibility.

This is what appears to happen in this video.

Note also that the power boats are failing to slow to no wake speed and are making a hazard to the small row boats. The large wakes are making maintaining a course very difficult for the row boats as the wake diverts the small boat, and of course nearing swamping them. Very irresponsible of the power boaters to not slow when they clearly see the row boats far ahead of them well before passing under the lifting bridge.

The title should more accurately be Idiot Power Boaters and out of control row boaters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vcpu13Q6jg

[Minnesail]

Originally Posted by Jammer

I've posted previously on how I find it amusing that Minneapolis has its own "colregs" that are different from the real COLREGS. It is my understanding that the way the federal law is written, the inland COLREGS preempt local and state laws and regulations.

The Mississippi and Lake Pepin are Coast Guard controlled waters so of course they'd follow the inland rules.

But I guess I would think that state lakes would fall under MN DNR rules and city lakes would fall under city rules and that the COLREGs wouldn't have anything to do with it.

Of course: I Am Not A Lawyer



Anyway, I was just presenting it to show how one jurisdiction deals with human powered vehicles.

And it makes sense to me. On Sunday I had an issue with my main halyard so I was sailing around with just my jib. I can't point as high, and sometimes I can't tack at all with just my jib, so I was fairly constrained in my movements. A kayak cut beside me while I was attempting to tack. The tack failed and the bow started to blow back down and I had to tell the kayak that I was not in control of the boat and that they had to move.

That would seem to fit the spirit of the COLREGs. The vessel with greaty maneuverability is give way.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Cpt Pat

This thread should be about collision avoidance techniques, prudence and courtesy in the presence of vessels under oars. Any discussion of "right-of-way" is moot: no one has "right-of-way." Ever. Do a text search of the COLREGs for that phrase. You'll find it only once where is spells out that law enforcement vessels do NOT have right-of-way.

Every COLREGS thread on the entire internet has this piece of pedantry in it. It's unhelpful to repeat it.

I don't sail in the harbor. I motor instead when they are present.

Bully for you. Bully for everyone who sails somewhere away from the 'yaks and paddleboards. Sure, you can motor slowly, flash lights, toot your horn, and muddle along. That isn't what this thread is about.


The water is a shared resource. There are people in 'yaks going out miles from shore. Oftentimes in groups. I encounter them while under sail. I imagine others do as well.

Good seamanship is a matter of prudence and using all the tools available to safely operate your vessel - not being able to quote the COLREGs chapter and verse at an accident investigation (an argument you will lose anyway).

I think that good seamanship requires (among other things) actually knowing which vessel is the stand-on vessel and which vessel is the give-way vessel.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Minnesail

The Mississippi and Lake Pepin are Coast Guard controlled waters so of course they'd follow the inland rules.

But I guess I would think that state lakes would fall under MN DNR rules and city lakes would fall under city rules and that the COLREGs wouldn't have anything to do with it.

Take a look at 33 CFR 83.01 (a): "These Rules apply to all vessels upon the inland waters of the United States, and to vessels of the United States on the Canadian waters of the Great Lakes to the extent that there is no conflict with Canadian law. The regulations in this subchapter (subchapter E, 33 CFR parts 83 through 90) have preemptive effect over State or local regulation within the same field."


The state-level preemption is at M.S. 86B.201 Subd. 1-2, which allows only those local ordinances that are not inconsistent with the rest of M.S. 86B. The statutory authority for "rules of the road" are in 86B.211(4), and the administrative rules are in 6110.1200, subpart 1. The rules are not consistent with the COLREGS, and state that "A nonmotorized watercraft has right-of-way over a motor-powered watercraft except when it is the overtaking watercraft. Motor-powered watercraft should always keep clear and pass astern of nonmotorized watercraft."

That would seem to fit the spirit of the COLREGs. The vessel with greaty maneuverability is give way.

There's much more to it than that. As one example, seaplanes are not more maneuverable than power boats, but seaplanes must stay out of the way of them all the same.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Cpt Pat

This thread should be about collision avoidance techniques, prudence and courtesy in the presence of vessels under oars. Any discussion of "right-of-way" is moot: no one has "right-of-way." Ever. Do a text search of the COLREGs for that phrase. You'll find it only once where is spells out that law enforcement vessels do NOT have right-of-way.

That's not in COLREGs. There is NO occurence of "right-of-way" or "right of way"

[Cpt Pat]

Originally Posted by StuM

That's not in COLREGs. There is NO occurence of "right-of-way" or "right of way"

It depends on which version you are looking at.



Actually, the phrase occurs twice in the Inland rules. Rules 9 and 14, both referring to the Great Lakes: https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageNam...lesAmalgamated

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Cpt Pat

It depends on which version you are looking at.



Actually, the phrase occurs twice in the Inland rules. Rules 9 and 14, both referring to the Great Lakes: https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageNam...lesAmalgamated

If we are discussing COLREGS and this thread is, then there is only one version although it is available in three languages (English, French and Spanish). See COLREG

Of course if you are discussing other local maritime regulations, you may quote whatever version you wish. However I think you know this!

[Cpt Pat]

Originally Posted by Jammer

I think that good seamanship requires (among other things) actually knowing which vessel is the stand-on vessel and which vessel is the give-way vessel.

Ah, Jammer. So nice to encounter your cheerful countenance.


Since it's so important to you, I suggest you hand out a copy of the COLREGs to every kayak, canoe, and paddle boarder you encounter!

Of course it's important to know who is stand-on and who is give-way, so you can try to predict what the other vessel will do in a traffic conflict. But do you expect a tourist who has exactly 1 minute of experience at sea to know that information and to be predictable? Or do you think it's best to behave like a seaman and not a lawyer by just giving way to avoid an accident with a newbie on the water?

People who insist on their "right" to stand-on really should find another hobby: like going to law school. The whole point is to avoid accidents, not drive your bow through the give-way vessel.

Long ago, when I started sailing, I thought everyone was out to hit my boat. I'd sometimes empty my canned air horn on every sail. I'd give them "5 horns" and later grind my teeth over their discourtesies. Then, as I gained experience and learned to anticipate what other vessels would likely do, and relaxed enough to develop broader situational awareness, the conflicts occurred less and less often, until now when they hardly ever happen at all. Did the other skippers get better at avoiding conflicts with me? No. I got better at understanding them. And I learned to give and take on the water. A little courtesy goes a long way, I feel good about giving way early to a big motor vessel before a conflict develops when I would actually be stand-on, and I've had them thank me later and buy me a beer for it. Empathy for the other person's skills, or lack thereof, can make you a lot less angry at everyone else. Try remembering how it was when you were a novice - that will help. Unless, you are still a novice yourself.

I try to mentor novices - not yell at them and shake my COLREGs book in their face.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Wotname

If we are discussing COLREGS and this thread is, then there is only one version although it is available in three languages (English, French and Spanish). See COLREG

Of course if you are discussing other local maritime regulations, you may quote whatever version you wish. However I think you know this!

COLREGs are country specific since they are adopted by legislative acts of each signatory country of the international convention. Ditto as to each country's amendments and modifications thereof.

Reference wikipedia:

The International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea 1972 (COLREGs) are published by the International Maritime Organization (IMO) and set out, among other things, the "rules of the road" or navigation rules to be followed by ships and other vessels at sea to prevent collisions between two or more vessels. COLREGs can also refer to the specific political line that divides inland waterways, which are subject to their own navigation rules, and coastal waterways which are subject to international navigation rules. The COLREGs are derived from a multilateral treaty called the Convention on the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea.

Although rules for navigating vessels inland may differ, the international rules specify that they should be as closely in line with the international rules as possible. In most of continental Europe, the Code Européen des Voies de la Navigation Intérieure (CEVNI, or the European Code for Navigation on Inland Waters) apply. In the United States, the rules for vessels navigating inland are published alongside the international rules.

The International Maritime Organization (IMO) convention, including the almost four dozen "rules" contained in the international regulations, must be adopted by each member country that is signatory to the convention—COLREG laws must exist within each jurisdiction. Thereafter, each IMO member country must designate an "administration"—national authority or agency—for implementing the provisions of the COLREG convention, as it applies to vessels over which the national authority has jurisdiction. Individual governing bodies must pass legislation to establish or assign such authority, as well as to create national navigation laws (and subsequent specific regulations) which conform to the international convention; each national administration is thereafter responsible for the implementation and enforcement of the regulations as it applies to ships and vessels under its legal authority. As well, each administrations are typically empowered to enact modifications that apply to vessels in waters under the national jurisdiction concerned, provided that any such modifications are not inconsistent with the COLREGs.

Typically, the COLREG rules are incorporated within each nation's regulatory instruments "by reference".The rules are then specified in great detail in the regulations.

The full texts of current rules, as they apply in various national jurisdictions, are available in book form, and likewise from various national administration websites. The multiple books are thus in many languages, and not only provide the rules, but also provide discussion and examples related to interpreting the raw rules, including diagrams and hypothetical cases.

Certain individuals are legally required to carry or possess a copy of the rules, such as the owners and/or operators of certain vessels, and individuals subject to the rules are expected be aware of them.] Copies of the complete sets of regulations, each with their official wordings, are available from government and other maritime sources.

In the UK
The UK version of the COLREGs is provided by the MCA, in the Merchant Shipping (Distress Signals and Prevention of Collisions) Regulations of 1996. They are distributed and accessed in the form of a "Merchant Shipping Notice" (MSN), which is used to convey mandatory information that must be complied with under UK legislation. These MSNs relate to Statutory Instruments and contain the technical detail of such regulations. Material published by the MCA is subject to Crown copyright protection, but the MCA allows it to be reproduced free of charge in any format or medium for research or private study, provided it is reproduced accurately and not used in a misleading context.

In the US
The US version of the COLREGs is provided by the US Coast Guard of the US Department of Homeland Security.]

In Canada
The Canadian version of the COLREGs is provided by Transport Canada, which regulates Canadian vessels.
No right-of-way
A commonly held misconception concerning the rules of marine navigation is that by following specific rules, a vessel can gain certain rights of way over other vessels. No vessel ever has absolute "right of way" over other vessels. Rather, there can be a "give way" (burdened) vessel and a "stand on" (privileged) vessel, or there may be two give way vessels with no stand on vessel. A stand on vessel does not have an absolute right of way over any give way vessel, for if there is a risk of collision, a stand on vessel may still be obliged (under Rule 2 and Rule 17) to give way so as to avoid it, if doing so will be effective and is practicable. Two power-driven vessels approaching each other head-to-head, are both deemed to be "give way" and both are required to alter course so as to avoid colliding with the other. Neither vessel has "right of way".

[Montanan]

Let's not over analyze the situation.

All SUPs by definition and as depicted below are the stand-on vessels [except their passengers may not be standing on]. Even those vessels where the operator is performing a head stand [and at the moment not underway by use of oars or paddles] are the stand-on vessel.

Whereas Kayaks, Canoes, Row boats, those vessels are typically sit on, not stand-on vessels.

I hope I have clarified the situation.

[Montanan]

Could we all agree if you see this vessel that you should give way even if you were the stand on vessel?