COLREGS and vessels propelled by oars or paddles

[valhalla360]

Here's another twist.

Hobbie makes a pedal drive that looks like two fins below the hull that swish back and forth to propel the kayak. At slow speed from a distance, it may not be obvious to another boater that it is human powered.

Would this be considered a power boat? Especially since there are no obvious oars or paddles...it appears to be operating under power.

Obviously the common sense actions to avoid a crash still make sense but if they put you in a situation where you take action to try and avoid an incident but are unable, would the court consider that you reasonably assumed it was under power?

[Pete17C]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Here's another twist.

Hobbie makes a pedal drive that looks like two fins below the hull that swish back and forth to propel the kayak. At slow speed from a distance, it may not be obvious to another boater that it is human powered.

Would this be considered a power boat? Especially since there are no obvious oars or paddles...it appears to be operating under power.

Obviously the common sense actions to avoid a crash still make sense but if they put you in a situation where you take action to try and avoid an incident but are unable, would the court consider that you reasonably assumed it was under power?

Not sure about the coasties and COLREGs, but lots of state and federal parks consider a bicycle 'mechanized', and therefor against the rules baring motor vehicles going off road.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Hobbie makes a pedal drive that looks like two fins below the hull that swish back and forth to propel the kayak. At slow speed from a distance, it may not be obvious to another boater that it is human powered.

Would this be considered a power boat? Especially since there are no obvious oars or paddles...it appears to be operating under power.

Maybe someone will chime in and cite case law defining "mechanical propulsion." That's above my pay grade.

But we stopped and chatted with someone in one of those fin-powered kayaks the other day. They loved it, and I was really impressed with the ease of use, relative speed and maneuverability.

I suspect we'll be seeing more of those. If the price was right, I'd probably buy one.

[Minnesail]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

Maybe someone will chime in and cite case law defining "mechanical propulsion." That's above my pay grade.

But we stopped and chatted with someone in one of those fin-powered kayaks the other day. They loved it, and I was really impressed with the ease of use, relative speed and maneuverability.

I suspect we'll be seeing more of those. If the price was right, I'd probably buy one.

And you can get amas and a sail and make them into a trimaran. You now have a human mechanically propelled sailboat. How's that fit into the COLREGs?

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Minnesail

And you can get amas and a sail and make them into a trimaran. You now have a human mechanically propelled sailboat. How's that fit into the COLREGs?

If you are using your legs to power the Mirage Drive penguin feet or paddling with a kayak paddle then you are motoring, and if you have the sail deployed and using the "machinery" then you are motorsailing. Else if you are just relying on wind propulsion then you are sailing. Albeit I can't imagine attempting to display the day signals for motor sailing or night signal lights on such a craft. Our is a white / sand colored hull and amas, not as bright as the red or yellow versions and considerably larger than the single person craft depicted above.

The smallest of our three sailboats is the Tandem version of the Island Adventure by Hobie. It is 18 feet long, has amas and web fabric platforms stretching over the supports to the amas which can carry cargo or allow for shifting of ballast ['rail meat minus the rails"]. It provides for two persons, each with their own Mirage Drive / Penguin Feet, pedal propulsion and a 19 foot sail, plus kayak paddles. An amazingly versatile, trailerable boat which we use for Alpine lake access in Montana. One can also equip such with a motor, e.g, gasoline or electric drive if your leg power is prone to fatigue. One can really scoot along with the Mirage Drives alone or with motor sailing where your legs are your motors. Very much like a tandem bicycle as you can't observe if the person in front or behind you is pedaling and contributing to your VMG. Sail controls and rudder control are provided for both the forward and rear position of the crew so you can take turns operating the boat, or fight over where you are going. It has a rudder that lifts with a simple pull of a rope from either crew position and a swing up and down mounted centerboard to mitigate leeway when sailing. One can easily roller furl the sail by rotating the mast if the wind picks up or you wish to stow the sail if the wind dies, or you wish to anchor or beach the boat. All great joy. Can be a wet ride if headed into significant waves.

[KP44]

What would help is some education for those using canoes, kayaks, etc. Let them know that they never "have right-of-way" (no one does) and larger boats usually need the deeper water and some room to safely maneuver.
That said, we must avoid damage, collision, and/or injury in any way possible.

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

defining "mechanical propulsion."

There is general agreement in the maritime legal community that human-powered is not 'power-driven"

"(b) The term "power-driven vessel" means any vessel propelled by machinery:

Vessels propelled by oars, paddles, or other human- or animal-powered means are not included in this definition, nor are they covered in the Steering and Sailing Rules (Rules 4-19)--if you are in a rowboat, canoe, kayak, or the like you must use Rule 2 (in other words, common sense and good judgment). " Rule3.html

"rowboats, paddle boards and kayaks, are governed by Rule 2(b), which provides that “due regard shall be had to all dangers of navigation and collision and to any special circumstances, including the limitations of the vessels involved, which may make a departure from these Rules necessary to avoid immediate danger.” Rowboats and sailboats will experience different limitations under different conditions, and the evaluation of the respective rights of each vessel will require their respective operators consider those limitations. The bottom line often comes down to an evaluation of who is the more maneuverable vessel in any given encounter." https://www.thelog.com/ask-the-attor...road-part-iii/

There is some paddle vs motor case law, most of which has ruled against the bigger power vessels for failing to keep proper watch, failing to keep safe speed and such. None that I have seen have explicitly stated anything on the "propulsion" issue - perhaps because it was unnecessary to decide the cases or perhaps because it is clearly understood (eg human-powered not equal to power-driven) and did not need to be stated.

[RSH]

I don't understand why this has gone to FIVE pages.

Don't run the humans over if you can avoid it.

[john61ct]

And both assume and accept in your heart that they are 100% ignorant of, nor do they care about COLREGs, and the more experienced / responsible boaters are responsible for cheerfully compensating for those failings.

[Bill_Giles]

Rowboats etc are like windsurfers: there are those who don’t know the rules and don’t do anything about a collision situation, there are those who know the rules and cannot do anything about a collision situation and there are those that know the rules and won’t do anything about the situation. Of course with rowboats etc nobody knows the rules.

[JordanH]

Originally Posted by Bill_Giles

R<snip>Of course with rowboats etc nobody knows the rules.

Funny you should say that. When I used to dragon boat, our training lanes are behind a protected break-wall that had traditionally only been used by rowers. But then there were two groups - each starting from opposite ends of the straight facility. The land-lubber dragon boaters and self-righteous rowers would invariably meet at the narrows. Both unwieldy vessels, in a constrained space with limited maneuverability, half-way through a training run... it always lead to some interesting exchanges of adrenaline filled athletes.

My favourite was one day we were approaching to a near-run thing. The rowers stopped rowing and shouted insults in our direction as we approached; They didn't think dragon boaters should impede their training run. We stayed as far right as was safe, stopped paddling and I slapped a muzzle on our guys so they wouldn't inflame the verbal battle. Both boats glided passed safely with neither rowing or paddling. The rowers, lost it because we did not return insults, and turned their bodies to fire a second broadside of insults our way; They lost their balance and fell out of their boat still yelling at us. I chuckled as we paddled on our way while their chase boat had to collect them. If they had just picked up their oars and continued their set, they would have been dry.

Sometimes people just feel like they are more important and focus on that, rather than on safely negotiating a situation.


Really, rowers usually believe they have claim to any water they're on... because... rowing privilege?

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by tweitz

From my home dock I need to go out through a short, but narrow, winding, unmarked channel which happens to be where a lot of stand up paddlers and kayaks, including newbies, love to travel and learn. I am always ready on the horn to let them know I am coming, although I try to call to them instead if I can. My favorite is when they are mid channel and I toot the horn and the stand up paddler becomes disconcerted and falls off the paddle. Unfortunately, the paddlers don't understand that I can't just stop, that if I lose all way the wind will blow me out of the channel and aground. I have avoided them so far, but it isn't easy.

Tweitz, you are not helpless in your beneteau if you stop to avoid a paddleboard or kayak, you don't have to simply stand there while you are blown aground.

While stopped, or nearly so, you can put your boat into gear with the helm hard over and turn (basically on a dime) to a direction in which it is safe to move away from the side of the channel.

I think that claiming you cannot stop or you'll be blown aground is not true, unless you are a 6000 ton tanker. Your beneteau is quite maneuverable.

[Uricanejack]

The rules are relatively silent on the subject leaving it to rule 2. The common sense rule. rule 13 it makes no difference. If you are overtaking you keeps clear. If the canoe is over taking it keeps clear.
Rule 9, 10 vessels of less than 20m should not impede. But if they do it’s back to rule 2.
There was a triream replica built in Greece. It’s probably 20m

I take the view they have similar standing to a sailing vessel. The complications arise when I am sailing. I give them priority.

I also row out to my boat at anchor. Go canoeing and have a kayak.
I find I am quite manoeuvrable just not fast and may be quite effected by wind.
The approach of a power boat, sail boat or seaplane ect.
Self preservation prompts me to give way. It also provides an opportunity to take a breather.

I have watched paddlers try and cross a channel ahead of a ferry.
The ferry stopped and let them pass.
The Capt. Made a PA announcement.
“This was why he believed in creation. No creature this stupid could possible ave survived evolution”

Kayakers are the cyclists of the sea.

Use common dog and deal with it.

[KJThomas]

The rules used to state, "mechanically propelled vessels" which included vessels under oars, or various human powered arrangements as having the same rights and responsibilities as "power driven vessels" now.
Which made sense. A vessel being rowed always has power to maneuver,

Just like a vessel under power. The current ambiguity could have been avoided, simply by retaining the historical definition.

Originally Posted by Breaking Waves

There is general agreement in the maritime legal community that human-powered is not 'power-driven"

"(b) The term "power-driven vessel" means any vessel propelled by machinery:

Vessels propelled by oars, paddles, or other human- or animal-powered means are not included in this definition, nor are they covered in the Steering and Sailing Rules (Rules 4-19)--if you are in a rowboat, canoe, kayak, or the like you must use Rule 2 (in other words, common sense and good judgment). " Rule3.html

"rowboats, paddle boards and kayaks, are governed by Rule 2(b), which provides that “due regard shall be had to all dangers of navigation and collision and to any special circumstances, including the limitations of the vessels involved, which may make a departure from these Rules necessary to avoid immediate danger.” Rowboats and sailboats will experience different limitations under different conditions, and the evaluation of the respective rights of each vessel will require their respective operators consider those limitations. The bottom line often comes down to an evaluation of who is the more maneuverable vessel in any given encounter." https://www.thelog.com/ask-the-attor...road-part-iii/

There is some paddle vs motor case law, most of which has ruled against the bigger power vessels for failing to keep proper watch, failing to keep safe speed and such. None that I have seen have explicitly stated anything on the "propulsion" issue - perhaps because it was unnecessary to decide the cases or perhaps because it is clearly understood (eg human-powered not equal to power-driven) and did not need to be stated.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by KJThomas

The rules used to state, "mechanically propelled vessels" which included vessels under oars, or various human powered arrangements

Are you sure about that?


It's not how the power gets to the water, its where the power originates.



"Mechanically propelled vessel, means every description of vessel propelled wholly or in part by electricity steam or other mechanical power. [National Waterway Safety of Navigation and Shipping Regulation, 2002, R. 2(L)]"


1[(1) “ mechanically propelled vessel “ means every des*cription of vessel ordinarily plying on inland watersand propelled wholly or in part by steam, electricity or other mechanical power [The Inland Mechanically Propelled Vessels Act, 1917


And the USCG: