Corruption Index - 2003

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by tp12

What is it, specifically, about their method or presentation that you think is misinformation?

Do a little research on WWII propaganda. Rarely did they outright lie. Lies can be challenged. Factual data that creates a false impression is much harder to fight.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by tp12

Given it's called a perception index I can't see how it can be referred to as 'horribly flawed'. It's not pretending to actually measure corruption as any reasonable person can see that's impossible. It's clearly stated for anyone who wants to actually look into what they're doing instead of just reacting to what they think is going on.

I'd imagine it's named as it is for that very reason.

Calling it a self fulfilling prophecy, however, is not logical or reasonable and ignores their method.

Problem with this sort of logic is that if investigative authorities with all the resources and skills western countries available can't investigate and prosecute corruption how do lay people validly some to their conclusions?

[tp12]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

On illegal immigrants.

Originally Posted by RaymondR

Ahha, an open slatherer. Australians don't mind taking in a few genuine refugees, it's the queue jumping, self selecting, economic migrants who pay thousands of dollars to criminals they don't like. Not fair to those who wait patiently five or six years in a refugee camp somewhere waiting for a place. Qantas used to have a special team of toilet un-blockers in Perth to clear the torn up passports out of blocked aircraft toilet

I'm not an 'open slatherer'. It's best not to use straw man arguments because conclusions based on them are easily dismissed. Also, you appear to be using a Qantas response, an airline, to justify your comment that boat people don't have papers. It's indicative of the logic you've applied all through this conversation.

Seeking asylum isn't illegal, no matter how many times you try and say it is.

Originally Posted by RaymondR

AHaaa, an ABC and Sydney Morning Herald man. You'll be on the ABCs preferred respondents list for their pollster.

Another straw man. I read a lot of news sources, as I've already said. Strangely, I've never been polled.

Originally Posted by RaymondR

How does this affect cruisers coming to Australia.

They read your posts and then think they will be up to their necks in corrupt officials demanding bucksheesh all the time, tune into the ABC and hear and see the entire continent aflame one day, flooded and under water the next, starving sheep and cattle wandering the streets of our towns and cities, poor French folks being driven out of Sydney harbour into a Tasman Sea gale, and the Sydney morning Herald reporting from front to back page that rape and child molesting are rampart because of the societal breakdown caused by global warming. You'd sail non stop back to the northern hemisphere to avoid going within a thousand nautical miles of a place like that.

I've already, explicitly, stated that this isn't the type of corruption we have in Australia so this is yet another straw man argument easily dismissed. 10/10 for silly ranting though

Originally Posted by RaymondR

Have a good easter mate.

Cheers. You too.

[tp12]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Do a little research on WWII propaganda. Rarely did they outright lie. Lies can be challenged. Factual data that creates a false impression is much harder to fight.

This reads as though you think Transparency International are attempting to smear countries with false allegations of corruption. Is that what you mean? Seems a bit 'conspiracy theory' to me


So it seems there's nothing wrong with their method, you just think they're lying or something. Fair enough I suppose!

[tp12]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

Problem with this sort of logic is that if investigative authorities with all the resources and skills western countries available can't investigate and prosecute corruption how do lay people validly some to their conclusions?

This is why you should read and understand their claims and method.


Corruption is corruption - these authorities you refer to may be directed by some corrupt officials or may even be corrupt themselves. Corruption is notoriously difficult to investigate for what should be obvious reasons.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by tp12

This reads as though you think Transparency International are attempting to smear countries with false allegations of corruption. Is that what you mean? Seems a bit 'conspiracy theory' to me


So it seems there's nothing wrong with their method, you just think they're lying or something. Fair enough I suppose!

They very much have an agenda. Go look up the wiki on the company...lots of backers with agendas.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

They very much have an agenda. Go look up the wiki on the company...lots of backers with agendas.

Of course they have an agenda. Every organization does.

Transparency International:
We are a non-profit, non-governmental organisation dedicated to fighting corruption. We are probably best known for our Corruption Perceptions Index, which measures levels of perceived corruption around the world. But we do much more than that. Active in nearly 100 countries and on the international stage, we raise awareness of the devastating effects of corruption, and work with governments, businesses and international organisations to develop effective programmes to tackle it. We are not politically aligned, nor are we investigators, but we do push for changes in laws and behaviours.
Our Mission is to stop corruption and promote transparency, accountability and integrity at all levels and across all sectors of society.
Mission ➥ https://www.transparency.org/whowear...ion_and_values
Strategy ➥ https://www.transparency.org/whowear...trategy_2020/1


The majority of our income comes from government agencies along with multilateral bodies and foundations. Other sources include the private sector and individuals. All donations to Transparency International Secretariat over €1.000 are listed in our annual audited reports which can be found here. A list of donors providing more than €1.000 to the TI Secretariat can also be found on our website.
The conditions under which we accept funding are captured in our donations policy which you can download here. In summary it is Transparency International’s policy to accept funding from any donor and whether monetary or in kind, provided that acceptance does not impair TI's independence to pursue its mission nor endangers its integrity and reputation.
FAQs ➥ https://www.transparency.org/whowear...nternational/9

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Of course they have an agenda. Every organization does.

You are correct but honest folks don't manipulate in misleading ways to push that agenda.

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Mexican and Caribbean corruption is at a level I can understand.
Canadian and American corruption is on a scale beyond my wildest financial fantasies.

Truth. Third world corruption is visible. That said so it the corruption in NYS but some of it is “legal” and much of it kept quiet by the state government, federal investigators, and the NYSP. After all, they all have a hand in it, no matter which political party.

The difference is that in Papua New Guinea the little fish gets some much needed cash and/ or its spread around. In NYS and USA it’s only the well connected and rich that get the cash. Nothing new; in WW2 while American kids were dying by the dozen bombing the ball bearing factories in Schweinfurt, most of the Nazis ball bearings came from....USA. And nobody went to prison.

Nothing to see here, move along.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

Truth. Third world corruption is visible. That said so it the corruption in NYS but some of it is “legal” and much of it kept quiet by the state government, federal investigators, and the NYSP. After all, they all have a hand in it, no matter which political party.

The difference is that in Papua New Guinea the little fish gets some much needed cash and/ or its spread around. In NYS and USA it’s only the well connected and rich that get the cash. Nothing new; in WW2 while American kids were dying by the dozen bombing the ball bearing factories in Schweinfurt, most of the Nazis ball bearings came from....USA. And nobody went to prison.

Nothing to see here, move along.

I think if you could burrow into it deeply enough you'd find that most of the non German production of ball bearings in German use during WW2 came from Sweden as did a fair chunk of their iron ore.

Keep secrets in the United States, you've got to be kidding, they can't even keep secret the things they spend billions of dollars every year trying to keep secret.

[GordMay]

Transparency International's latest Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI), ranks 180 countries and territories on a scale from zero (out-and-out corrupt) to 100 (squeaky-clean).
New Zealand, Denmark, & Finland ranked first, all with a Score of 88/100.
CPI 2021 ➥ https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021

CPI 2020 ➥ https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2020/index/nzl

[belizesailor]

Some things dont change...glad to see all of Central America is maintaining "high" marks! [emoji6]