Do the potty police have science on their side?

[Sea Q]

Same with the Med i sell Noflex to a couple of large Charter companies in the caribbean and their other world wide charter locations. They buy it to cut down on sludge and smells and they do have holding tanks and use them.
Still they might dump but maybe when on the move not at anchor.
Honest boater are all pretty responsible and at anchor and would never dump
If i had too i would take the boat out of the anchorage into a channel and dump the tanks on the move again dilution

Its climate change and PH that is causing havoc with ocean.

[dreuge]

The potty policy is not an issue scientific correctness but rather an issue of political correctness.

The reality is that a cruiser's waste is just a drop of water in a big sea. Waste from commercial and public source account for the majority of sea water pollutants. Just google "Beach closure due to waste spill" and you will see a plethora of closures due to "Millions of Gallons of Sewage Spill" by local municipalities that occurred in just the last few months.

Yes, in closed areas dumping your waste can matter, even you don't want to swim in your own poop. But for the most part it is like contributing green house gasses (CO2) to the atmosphere by breathing. Yea, CO2 is bad for the atmosphere, but animal breathers are not the problem.

I suggest one read Don Casey's section of "This Old Boat, 2nd ed." called "The Straight Poop" on page 341 quoted below:


THE STRAIGHT POOP by Don Casey
How you plumb your toilet is likely to be a matter of conscience. Federal law has forbidden overboard discharge in coastal waters since 1972, yet many (perhaps most) recreational boats still pump raw sewage overboard. It is our dirty little secret. Given our vested interest in clean water, how can we publicly support clean water while secretly pumping our heads overboard?

Let’s put aside political correctness and face the truth. Who honestly believes that storing excrement under your bunk is a good idea? Holding tanks stink, leak, and sometimes blow. Handling a pumpout hose is not just unpleasant, it is a clear and present health hazard. From the perspective of boat and crew, dis- posing of excrement immediately is simply the most sanitary way of dealing with it.

It seems to me that the fundamental ques- tion is, is pooping in the ocean a villainous act? To answer that, we need to understand the impact of human waste on water quality. I believe it is possible to draw a valid parallel with another natural bodily function—breathing. Every time you exhale, you are “polluting” the air with carbon dioxide. Scientists believe that rising temperatures worldwide are due to excessive amounts of carbon dioxide in the atmo- sphere. It is called global warming, and scientists in increasing numbers warn that the long-term effects will be catastrophic.

Here is the point: when you exhale, you are con- tributing to global warming. Of course, your car puts a million times more carbon dioxide into the air than you do, but it is undeniably true that your breathing con- tributes to air pollution. Or does it? If we stopped driving internal-combustion cars, stopped burning fossil fuels, stopped slash-and-burn deforestation, would the carbon dioxide we each exhale be pollution or merely a part of the natural equation of life on earth?

W. C. Fields decried drinking water because “fish [procreate] in it.” They also [defecate] in it. Poop- ing in the water may be aesthetically offensive, but it isn’t polluting unless it’s harmful. There has never been any evidence linking fecal water contamination to overboard discharge except when the boats are densely packed in enclosed waters. The same dynamic is at play with air quality in a crowded room, but step outside and you can breathe in the same spot for 100 years without degrading the air around you.

Am I advocating overboard discharge? Most of the time it is the only reasonable way for the small boat to deal with excrement, and most of the time direct discharge represents the least risk to both crew and environment. If your boat has sufficient electrical power, an onboard treatment system might be better for the environment, but not one that uses formal- dehyde or chlorine. The residue of these sanitizing agents is, according to scientific study, more harmful to marine life than the raw sewage.

The real sources of fecal water pollution are municipal sewage systems and agricultural runoff. In a seemingly endless repetition of “accidents,” municipalities pump hundreds of millions of gallons of raw sewage into the waters every year. The impact of agricultural runoff—including the fertilizer you may use on your lawn—is greater still. Agreeing that flushing your head contributes to the problem is no different than saying that breathing contributes to bad air. You should quit making that concession. Allowing boat toilets to be painted as contributors to water pollution only deflects attention from the real problems. Overboard discharge may be a crime against the state, but it is not a crime against nature. I don’t think there is any question that conscientious direct discharge—one flush at a time—is better for the planet than disposing of 30 gallons of concentrate. Conscientious discharge means you never discharge your head in an enclosed basin, into sluggish waters, or when another boat is close enough to hear you flush.

[GaryBode]

Does a bear crap in a river?

[dreuge]

Originally Posted by GaryBode

Does a bear crap in a river?

See

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl33b-cagOg

[fahtcha]

Thanks for your thoughts CheeseHead. I second them. It isn't exactly much trouble to follow the rules.

[GaryBode]

Don't be disrespectful.

[dreuge]

Let me politely reply by saying-- try thinking for oneself.

A society based on blindly following the rules doesn't work.

Did you know that the use of "Cheesehead" as slanderous term towards Dutch people first used during World War II by German soldiers. You should ask a surviving German WWII solder about the benefits of blindly following.

I'm not Dutch but I embrace it.

[rgranger]

MSDs can kill bacteria but they don't reduce the amount of nutrients in the discharge.

Nutrients cause algae blooms and other unwanted effects.

I'm not a tree huger but I am a scientist.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Sojourner

I understand and support concepts of zero footprint sailing and travel in general....ethically it's the only right thing to do. However, I also think the impact of cruisers is overblown. If I (or any of us) jump into the water, the first thing we do is pee. Don't deny it, don't you even try to front In fact, my swimming schedule on the boat is often dictated by how much beer I had...it's easier and more fun to pee in the ocean. Yet if I pee in my marine head, then pump it out, I'm suddenly a criminal or culpable for algae blooms? Even regular toilet paper biodegrades in a matter of days; we use the special stuff which biodegrades pretty much as I'm wiping That said, the shower hose is also a good bidet, and we don't like wasting paper. It's like hiking, ain't nobody holding a pee or packing out their feces in a ziploc till they get home. Yes, if the population of Denver were to all go hike the same trail and do their business, that would be a problem. But there just isnt the numbers of cruisers to make an impact by pumping their waste in normal conditions. The regulations should be solely targeting large, commercial vessels that charge money and so can cover their additional treatment/holding expenses...ever seen the vids of a Carnival cruise discharging their holding tanks at sea?? Google it, just not while having breakfast. But even that, in the grand scheme of the ocean, is nothing. If you're anchored next to me, you can bet I'll be peeing in your swimming pool while I'm waving at you from the water. And you'll be doing the same to me. And it's all good. Come over for a beer and we'll pee together

I’m going to hand you the baton, now you’re the new official CF potty pariah. Carry it proudly, it was fun while it lasted. I’m in Croatia, where are you?

Cheers

Ken

[jknight611]

I am well aware that raw sewage in our waterways is a bad idea, BUT several years ago, the City of New Orleans had a “minor” overflow of raw sewage into Lake Ponchatrain, to the tune of 3,000,000 gallons! They city officials were downplaying it as insignificant minor event that sometimes happens, oh well, no swimming in the lake for a few days. The same week this happened, the potty police were boarding boats in all the marinas in the area with their little blue pills. They drop them in the potty and flush, if anything blue comes up around your boat, break out the check book! Goin ta git expensive! Ah, politics, gotta go for the money!

[Exile]

Originally Posted by dreuge

The potty policy is not an issue scientific correctness but rather an issue of political correctness.

The reality is that a cruiser's waste is just a drop of water in a big sea. Waste from commercial and public source account for the majority of sea water pollutants. Just google "Beach closure due to waste spill" and you will see a plethora of closures due to "Millions of Gallons of Sewage Spill" by local municipalities that occurred in just the last few months.

Yes, in closed areas dumping your waste can matter, even you don't want to swim in your own poop. But for the most part it is like contributing green house gasses (CO2) to the atmosphere by breathing. Yea, CO2 is bad for the atmosphere, but animal breathers are not the problem.

I suggest one read Don Casey's section of "This Old Boat, 2nd ed." called "The Straight Poop" on page 341 quoted below:


THE STRAIGHT POOP by Don Casey
How you plumb your toilet is likely to be a matter of conscience. Federal law has forbidden overboard discharge in coastal waters since 1972, yet many (perhaps most) recreational boats still pump raw sewage overboard. It is our dirty little secret. Given our vested interest in clean water, how can we publicly support clean water while secretly pumping our heads overboard?

Let’s put aside political correctness and face the truth. Who honestly believes that storing excrement under your bunk is a good idea? Holding tanks stink, leak, and sometimes blow. Handling a pumpout hose is not just unpleasant, it is a clear and present health hazard. From the perspective of boat and crew, dis- posing of excrement immediately is simply the most sanitary way of dealing with it.

It seems to me that the fundamental ques- tion is, is pooping in the ocean a villainous act? To answer that, we need to understand the impact of human waste on water quality. I believe it is possible to draw a valid parallel with another natural bodily function—breathing. Every time you exhale, you are “polluting” the air with carbon dioxide. Scientists believe that rising temperatures worldwide are due to excessive amounts of carbon dioxide in the atmo- sphere. It is called global warming, and scientists in increasing numbers warn that the long-term effects will be catastrophic.

Here is the point: when you exhale, you are con- tributing to global warming. Of course, your car puts a million times more carbon dioxide into the air than you do, but it is undeniably true that your breathing con- tributes to air pollution. Or does it? If we stopped driving internal-combustion cars, stopped burning fossil fuels, stopped slash-and-burn deforestation, would the carbon dioxide we each exhale be pollution or merely a part of the natural equation of life on earth?

W. C. Fields decried drinking water because “fish [procreate] in it.” They also [defecate] in it. Poop- ing in the water may be aesthetically offensive, but it isn’t polluting unless it’s harmful. There has never been any evidence linking fecal water contamination to overboard discharge except when the boats are densely packed in enclosed waters. The same dynamic is at play with air quality in a crowded room, but step outside and you can breathe in the same spot for 100 years without degrading the air around you.

Am I advocating overboard discharge? Most of the time it is the only reasonable way for the small boat to deal with excrement, and most of the time direct discharge represents the least risk to both crew and environment. If your boat has sufficient electrical power, an onboard treatment system might be better for the environment, but not one that uses formal- dehyde or chlorine. The residue of these sanitizing agents is, according to scientific study, more harmful to marine life than the raw sewage.

The real sources of fecal water pollution are municipal sewage systems and agricultural runoff. In a seemingly endless repetition of “accidents,” municipalities pump hundreds of millions of gallons of raw sewage into the waters every year. The impact of agricultural runoff—including the fertilizer you may use on your lawn—is greater still. Agreeing that flushing your head contributes to the problem is no different than saying that breathing contributes to bad air. You should quit making that concession. Allowing boat toilets to be painted as contributors to water pollution only deflects attention from the real problems. Overboard discharge may be a crime against the state, but it is not a crime against nature. I don’t think there is any question that conscientious direct discharge—one flush at a time—is better for the planet than disposing of 30 gallons of concentrate. Conscientious discharge means you never discharge your head in an enclosed basin, into sluggish waters, or when another boat is close enough to hear you flush.

This one's long but definitely worth a re-post! A kind thank you to dreuge and to Don Casey. Rational voices of reason in a world too often inundated with sanctimonious & mindless political correctness.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I’m going to hand you the baton, now you’re the new official CF potty pariah. Carry it proudly, it was fun while it lasted. I’m in Croatia, where are you?

Cheers

Ken

I'm already missin' ya Ken. Say it ain't so. Or at least send us another youTube. Please don't abandon your loyal CF potty pariahs!!

[A CheeseHead]

Originally Posted by dreuge

Let me politely reply by saying-- try thinking for oneself.

A society based on blindly following the rules doesn't work.

Did you know that the use of "Cheesehead" as slanderous term towards Dutch people first used during World War II by German soldiers. You should ask a surviving German WWII solder about the benefits of blindly following.

I'm not Dutch but I embrace it.

"CheeseHead" is what people call folks from Wisconsin. We CheeseHeads call ourselves that.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by A CheeseHead

"CheeseHead" is what people call folks from Wisconsin. We CheeseHeads call ourselves that.

That's always what I thought too (several good friends from WI). Never knew about the slanderous version from WW2.

[mfahrenthold]

I use an Electroscan Type I sanitation device. It is Coast Guard approved and discharges cleaner water than any land based sewage treatment plant. If it's Coast Guard approved then it should be legal anywhere. Period. Screw the no discharge zones. Get a life.