Do the potty police have science on their side?

[RenegadeBI]

Every time we have a heavy rain they open the floodgates at the water treatment facility & the red flag goes up prohibiting clamming. 90% of what gets flushed is just beer pee.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by dreuge

I suggest one read Don Casey's section of "This Old Boat, 2nd ed." called "The Straight Poop" on page 341 quoted below:

THE STRAIGHT POOP by Don Casey
[snip]

Conscientious discharge means you never discharge your head in an enclosed basin, into sluggish waters, or when another boat is close enough to hear you flush.

I can't disagree.

But laws aren't made for the conscientious, they're made for those who aren't conscientious... and for us when we sometimes have a lapse of conscientiousness. Or one of our guests has a dump while we're at a crowded anchorage.

AND cruisers and their well-equipped boats are not the majority of boats on the water; most boaters do not have our experience, or the same level of concern.

I would be onboard with an exception for cruisers if someone can come up with a sure-fire way for law enforcement to identify a responsible cruiser with a proper, well-maintained MSD. Until that time, the only practical way to keep popular recreational waterways and destinations relatively crap-free is to prohibit any discharge.

So continue to use your system conscientiously, and keep a bag of tie-wraps and some sidecutters handy.

[DumnMad]

Originally Posted by rgranger

MSDs can kill bacteria but they don't reduce the amount of nutrients in the discharge.

Nutrients cause algae blooms and other unwanted effects.

I'm not a tree huger but I am a scientist.

Where is your science ??

Its the nutrients that feed the plankton that give the ocean its life.

[DumnMad]

I suspect the laws were originally thought necessary for large ships including cruise ships with more than 5,000 passengers and crew. Then, with typical bureacratic laziness they just made it a blanket rule to cover everyone.
No science, no politics, just laziness.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by DumnMad

Where is your science ??

Its the nutrients that feed the plankton that give the ocean its life.

Sounds like he meant to say "nitrates."

[Exile]

Originally Posted by mfahrenthold

I use an Electroscan Type I sanitation device. It is Coast Guard approved and discharges cleaner water than any land based sewage treatment plant. If it's Coast Guard approved then it should be legal anywhere. Period. Screw the no discharge zones. Get a life.

By CG approved, I assume you mean it's approved for overboard discharge within the 3-mile limit. In other words, it's an exception to the general prohibition. As it should be, since it doesn't discharge anything harmful to inland waters, does it? State-mandated NDZs should then have valid, science-based reasons for overriding CG approvals. Their absence only discourages boaters from installing more expensive MSDs which treat sewage before it ever leaves the boat. Do we not want to encourage such systems instead?

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

I can't disagree.

But laws aren't made for the conscientious, they're made for those who aren't conscientious... and for us when we sometimes have a lapse of conscientiousness. Or one of our guests has a dump while we're at a crowded anchorage.

AND cruisers and their well-equipped boats are not the majority of boats on the water; most boaters do not have our experience, or the same level of concern.

I would be onboard with an exception for cruisers if someone can come up with a sure-fire way for law enforcement to identify a responsible cruiser with a proper, well-maintained MSD. Until that time, the only practical way to keep popular recreational waterways and destinations relatively crap-free is to prohibit any discharge.

So continue to use your system conscientiously, and keep a bag of tie-wraps and some sidecutters handy.

Except that you still haven't cited any harm -- actual or potential -- arising from your claimed majority of boaters who "do not have our experience, or the same level of concern." But no matter, nobody seems to be advocating for the abolishment of the general 3-mile no-discharge rule that's been around a long time. NDZs, however, are downright counterproductive since they create a disincentive to install onboard treatment systems.

[Butto]

I don’t really care. However it will be interesting to see if they can enforce whales, porpoise, dolphins and turtles to wear their colostomy bags. Given their number twos are much more significant than mine.

[Jim Cate]

Question: Does the ElectroSan unit work in fresh water? From memory, it uses some magic electrochemical process to break down some of the salts in seawater to produce a sterilizing compound, likely sodium hypochlorate. If that is so, it wouldn't work in a lake environment, would it?

Jim

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Question: Does the ElectroSan unit work in fresh water? From memory, it uses some magic electrochemical process to break down some of the salts in seawater to produce a sterilizing compound, likely sodium hypochlorate. If that is so, it wouldn't work in a lake environment, would it?

Jim

You add salt to allow it to work. Either with the flush or with the salt kit.

[sparrowhawk1]

In Florida the algae blooms( red tide) are caused by the runoff of the cattle Farms and sugar farms excessive fertilization. It has been really bad this year and they had to stop letting the water out from the Okeechobee. Scientific facts look it up. Also there is a park nearby that has had problems with their toilets "overflowing" closing down beaches in the area. And I remember years ago when there was high fecal content in the water in Key West. they did a DNA test and found out it was from birds.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Question: Does the ElectroSan unit work in fresh water? From memory, it uses some magic electrochemical process to break down some of the salts in seawater to produce a sterilizing compound, likely sodium hypochlorate. If that is so, it wouldn't work in a lake environment, would it?

Jim

For fresh or brackish water, or if you set up the head to flush with water from the freshwater tank, there's a brine tank you can put in and fill with salt.


The electrochemical process mainly produces hypochlorous acid, which has antibacterial properties, and sodium hydroxide.

[Jammer]

I came across this study today, which is interesting.


http://www.mfe.govt.nz/sites/default...port-jun02.pdf

[DumnMad]

Originally Posted by Jammer

I came across this study today, which is interesting.


http://www.mfe.govt.nz/sites/default...port-jun02.pdf

Good Jammer,
we have some science but the required 500m clearance from marine farms seems to confirm the NDZ's are rubbish - except perhaps for an anchored cruise ship with facilities for 8,000 people.

[senormechanico]

That report is of the old version as well.
The LectraSan has been updated to the ElectroScan which uses (AFAIK) about 30 percent or less power than the earlier version.


The ElectroScan also will tell you on a LCD screen what's happening, if there's insufficient current (need more salt added) and other information.


NDZ is nothing more than a "feel good" political sham, for votes for the parasites of our gummint.