Do the potty police have science on their side?

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Jammer

While there is much truth in your post, I think it's a mistake to hold up the municipal treatment plants as being a major source of water pollution. To be sure, plants vary, and it's useful as a point of comparison to boats.

I think this is exactly right. Myself and others cite municipal treatment plants mainly because they represent a more or less similar type of water "pollution," albeit in grossly disproportionate concentrations.

In recent years one of my primary cruising areas has been the Chesapeake Bay, the largest estuary in the US with surrounds dominated by agriculture and it's ever present run-off. While there have been effective efforts to improve water quality and bring back depleted oyster beds (a single oyster can filter up to 50g of water/day), for example, there has also been undue targeting of recreational boaters and boatyards with dubious effectiveness. This has resulted in a good deal of cynicism about such policies and policymakers, and created costs and burdens which could be more effectively utilized.

Another example is the increasing popularity of bans of certain types of anti-fouling paint for recreational boaters from which commercial, military, and LE vessels are exempted. Recreational boaters are easy marks, are perceived as wealthy (one of many "disfavored" groups these days ) and so can afford to haul their boats out more often for bottom jobs, and don't want to be perceived as "anti-environment" or whatever labels will inevitably attach from those acting on emotions and ignorance. It's a shame really, since as a group it's probably fair to say that recreational boaters have a more heightened interest in clean waters than most.

[Buc210]

I am alarmed at how some posters feel that politicians cater to the non-boating public. The fact of the matter is that legally, the waters belong to all of the citizens of a State, not just boaters or cruisers or live-a-boards. I have seen the results of boater's behaving badly by pumping overboard in anchorages and mooring fields. I know some cruisers and charter boat operators that discharge near shore (illegally). I've been on boats that did it, protested their actions and ended my association with these individuals. Several areas in Florida that I have sailed have had extremely high bacteria levels due to illegal pumping overboard. I always use pump-out facilities and gladly pay the fees.
I know some posters are trying to help others here. The attitudes of some of the other posters here will only give "Ammunition" to those non-boaters and pols that want to "over-regulate" the nation's waters. I point this out in the spirit of helping the boating community.

[sparrowhawk1]

Originally Posted by Buc210

I am alarmed at how some posters feel that politicians cater to the non-boating public. The fact of the matter is that legally, the waters belong to all of the citizens of a State, not just boaters or cruisers or live-a-boards. I have seen the results of boater's behaving badly by pumping overboard in anchorages and mooring fields. I know some cruisers and charter boat operators that discharge near shore (illegally). I've been on boats that did it, protested their actions and ended my association with these individuals. Several areas in Florida that I have sailed have had extremely high bacteria levels due to illegal pumping overboard. I always use pump-out facilities and gladly pay the fees.
I know some posters are trying to help others here. The attitudes of some of the other posters here will only give "Ammunition" to those non-boaters and pols that want to "over-regulate" the nation's waters. I point this out in the spirit of helping the boating community.

Your assumption that the high bacteria count is from liveaboards doesn't even come close to reality

[sparrowhawk1]

One year when I was in Key West high bacteria was blamed on liveaboards DNA testing showed it was from birds.
Florida is being hit hard with red tide obviously caused from Big Sugar and cattle Farms and disruption of water flow.

[sparrowhawk1]

I've lost count of how many times I've seen this or similar

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Buc210

I am alarmed at how some posters feel that politicians cater to the non-boating public.

Politicians often cater to the largest constituencies. That's why they're politicians. They are also no less vulnerable to misperceptions, especially when it comes to science-based issues.

The fact of the matter is that legally, the waters belong to all of the citizens of a State, not just boaters or cruisers or live-a-boards.

I don't think any cruisers or liveaboards dispute this. Nor do non-boater citizens who's sewage is being dumped into those same waters by municipal treatment plants.

I have seen the results of boater's behaving badly by pumping overboard in anchorages and mooring fields.

Really. What exactly did you see?

I know some cruisers and charter boat operators that discharge near shore (illegally). I've been on boats that did it, protested their actions and ended my association with these individuals.

Sounds reasonable.

Several areas in Florida that I have sailed have had extremely high bacteria levels due to illegal pumping overboard.

Highly doubtful the high bacteria levels are caused by illegal overboard discharge from recreational or small commercial vessels. Please verify such an assertion.

I always use pump-out facilities and gladly pay the fees.

So do I, and I suspect so do most. Or they dump offshore or use Type 3 sanitation devices where allowed.

I know some posters are trying to help others here. The attitudes of some of the other posters here will only give "Ammunition" to those non-boaters and pols that want to "over-regulate" the nation's waters. I point this out in the spirit of helping the boating community.

Misperceptions based on distorted science don't help anyone, not policymakers nor their constituents. Authorizing boaters to install Type 3 treatment devices but then effectively prohibiting their use discourages responsible behavior.

[Sojourner]

I know I already commented once on this but the topic just gets me pissed so, seriously, there is absolutely zero way anything sailing cruisers are pumping overboard is affecting marine life. Zero. Nada. There aren't enough cruisers in the galaxy to compare even slightly to industrial runoff, sewerage mishaps onshore, or cruise ships. Start regulating that properly and we'll make progress, not us low hanging fruit. People, WE'RE ANIMALS!! It's the most biodegradable thing in the world; I used to make nightsoil to fertilize our little vineyard in another life.

Test the fecal content of your neighborhood pool....yikes! From a CDC study of waterparks: ‘Let’s imagine 1,000 kids go to a water park. They have as much as 10 grams of feces on their rear ends,’ she said. ‘We are now talking about 10,000 grams or 10 kg. That translates to 24 pounds of poop in the water.’

In a typical anchorage we all make less biological waste than a medium pod of dolphins. I'll use my bio paper and pump away after my morning coffee with wild abandon, and then take a swim 10 minutes later, peeing while I do. It's all good

(wanna see a dolphin take a crap? https://youtu.be/EihyCY_qszk?t=23 )

[john61ct]

Not sure why but your posts are hidden by broken "Spoiler" buttons in Tapatalk

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Exile

Misperceptions based on distorted science don't help anyone, not policymakers nor their constituents. Authorizing boaters to install Type 3 treatment devices but then effectively prohibiting their use discourages responsible behavior.

The recreational no-discharge regulations are not so much directed at cruisers, they are more for the other 90% of boaters who are more likely through ignorance or inexperience to discharge inappropriately.

[jpendoley]

Just a little perspective offered here. I live aboard yesterday I made the one hour round-trip to the pumping station available to me only to find that it was not working. It has not worked 50% of the time I’ve gone to use it. Upstream for me a small city has released 32,000,000 gallons of raw sewage in the last six months into the river where I moor my boat. I take my environmental responsibility seriously, but blaming boaters for high bacteria levels sounds like a canard.More productive would be getting involved at the state and municipal level to ensure functioning and plentiful pump out stations and water treatment plants.

[sailorboy1]

I’m going to write my Congressman and Senator and recommend a new law that will be a great benefit to all of us along the coast.

It would ban all fish, birds, dolphins, whales, manatees, etc. from being within the 3 mile discharge limit. This should GREAYLY improve the water quality!

An added plus, the gulls wouldn’t be dice pooping our boats anymore

[Kenomac]

This thread and comments on it remind me of the other thread on Cf where the guy wants to put a stop to the “red tide.”

Good luck.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Sojourner

...Test the fecal content of your neighborhood pool....yikes! ...

Or the arm rest in a movie theater...


Later,
Dan

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by dannc

Or the arm rest in a movie theater...


Later,
Dan

Hope I never go to the theaters you go to

[dannc]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Hope I never go to the theaters you go to

I don't think you will. Wifey and I are not movie people, never once went to movie when we where dating and the only time we have gone is when the children wanted to see a movie. Which was only for a few movies and hopefully we are done with that, pun intended, scat.

There was a study I read a few years ago that looked at what was on the arm chair fabric in movies theaters. Twas not pleasant. Not just poop either.

But think about it. How many times have you seen someone walk out of the bathroom without washing their hands? Too many is the answer.

Later,
Dan