do you use side lights or tricolor?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

I refuse to get drawn back into all this....

However.....

I think 'Red over Green' is the way to go... with sidelights... and AIS Tx.. unless you are on a long sea voyage and power is an issue... in which case go with tricolour and AIS Tx.

That's it... I'm done....

I agree.


I've had two different experiences, where lights at the top of my 23meter high mast were not seen, resulting once in a near-collision and the other time in an actual collision. Since then I really don't trust the tricolor, but I do use it offshore because otherwise I simply can't maintain crew's night vision -- the deck-level lights just create too much light pollution.


Red over green sailing machine lights would be the way to go to really be sure to be seen, but then you have to deal with the light pollution issue.


As to offshore vs inshore -- no one said there's any rule. Legally you can use either deck level OR tricolor any time you are under sail. But it is bad practice to use tricolor inshore, because it's not well visible from close distances, and can be easily confused with a more distant light. Tricolor ought to be visible from further away so offshore this is less of a concern -- THEORETICALLY. Practically, I don't trust them. I would sure as hell NEVER use a tricolor, not anywhere, if I were not broadcasting AIS, and I do have a large radar reflector.

[zeehag]

as masthead lighting is not mentioned in colregs i use side lights 10-12 ft above water level on special lightboards, and as far apart as possible, and i use oversized lights for visibility.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by zeehag

as masthead lighting is not mentioned in colregs.......

It's in rule 25.

Rule 25
Sailing vessels underway and vessels under oars.

(a) A sailing vessel underway shall exhibit:

(i) sidelights;

(i) a sternlight.

(b) In a sailing vessel of less than 20 metres in length the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule may be combined in one lantern at or near the top of the mast where it can best be seen.

[Discovery 15797]

Originally Posted by pskudlarski

My boat is equipped with regular side navigation lights an a tricolor on the mast. What is better to use?

I know on eis allowed to use only on or the other, but I must admit that in bad weather I am really tempted to use both. My thinking is that it would be better to be seen and treated as something else (e.g. from port : two red lights one above another would look like a vessel out of control) than not seen at all.

As already stated, using a masthead tri-color and side navigation lights is "illegal" and would likely be confusing to approaching vessels.

But, if you are most concerned about visibility, then review COLREG 25(c). Running side lights in conjunction with a 360 degree red light over a 360 degree green light at the mast head is unmistakeable as a sailboat. "red over green - sailing machine."

[philiosophy]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Jim,

Not everyone knows the rules, which is why the question is being asked. I see no reason to degrade any individual who might not know, I wasn’t aware until recently; I thought this forum was a place to learn and share ideas.

True enough but the gentleman in question here needs to not just learn the rules. He also needs to know its not ok to just create his own sense of proper lighting. Every one of us could probably do with a read thru the rules of the road. Not that terribly long a read. Only lazyness, and arrogance will keep us from it.

[philiosophy]

Originally Posted by pskudlarski

I understand your point about using both lights, note I meant sailing not busy area in good visibility but out in open sea in bad conditions when the risk of not being seen is significant.

Apart from this the other question remains: which LEGAL option is better under sail: only tricolor, or only side lights?

Please read the RULES OF THE ROAD!!!!!!!
If you want to be seen better buy brighter Tri Color lights for WHEN UNDER SAIL.
Brighter bigger Side,Mast light, and Stern Light for When UNDERWAY BEING PROPELLED BY MACHINERY.

Otherwise I strongly suggest stop trying to make up your own set of rules. These are rules not half cocked opinions.
One easy thing you could do to make yourself safer it stand by on VHF CH. 16 with the volume turned up adaquately so other vessels can call you to make passing arrangements.

[Cpt Pat]

I follow Rule 25(c): red-over-green. And having stood watch on large vessels, I can attest that tri-color lights are very difficult to see when they can be easily confused for city lights when a city is in the background. (Example: "Is that red light a traffic signal, an aviation obstruction light -- or a sailboat mixed in with all those other lights?").

Additionally, with the red-over-green plus deck lights combination, the one visible nav light on deck increases in visual separation from the mast-mounted red/green lights as distance decreases, which provides a visual clue of a closing distance and a potential collision conflict.

One point I can add: the red and green mast mounted lights should be separated vertically by at least one meter (39 inches). That separation can be seen at up to 1 nm as two separate lights. Any closer, and at 1 nm distance, they merge visually into one light.

The only skippers I've encountered who didn't understand what type of vessel red-over-green lights signify have been, ironically, other sailors. We really need to do better at reading the COLREGs. Here's a copy: https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/navR...B_20181106.pdf

I signed up for a previous single-handed Transpac Race, and one reason I dropped out was the insistence by the officials that I abandon my red-over-green lights and install a tri-color. "Every boat must have a tri-color light!" They were flummoxed when I pointed out that tri-color lights are illegal on sailboats over 20 meters in length - that they were unintentionally limiting boat lengths to 20 meters by that rule, and that a red-over-green configuration was the only option to get lights up the mast on a 20 meter or larger vessel. Even those Old Salts hadn't carefully read Rule 25(b) of the COLREGs!

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Cpt Pat

I follow Rule 25(c): red-over-green. And having stood watch on large vessels, I can attest that tri-color lights are very difficult to see, and that they can be easily confused for city lights when a city is in the background. (Example: "Is that red light a traffic signal, an aviation obstruction light -- or a sailboat?").

With the red-over-green plus deck lights combination, the one visible nav light on deck increases in visual separation from the mast-mounted red/green lights as distance decreases, which provides a visual clue of a closing distance and a potential collision conflict.

One point I can add: the red and green mast mounted lights should be separated vertically by at least one meter (39 inches). That separation can be seen at up to 1 nm as two separate lights. Any closer, and at 1 nm distance, they merge visually into one PURPLElight.


The only skippers I've encountered who didn't understand what type of vessel red-over-green lights signified were, ironically, other sailors.

If I were ordering a new yacht - or a new mast - I would have red over green fitted rather than a tri-light.

Fitting R&G to an existing mast wouldn't be too difficult using something like this https://www.hellamarine.com/en/produ...tion-lamp.html
Take a stick .. flang at base to attach to top of mast... flange on top to take red.... if replacing tri-light just mount green where tri-light used to be...
Hardest part would be the wiring...

[roverhi]

Use a bicolor light on bow pulpit with a white stern light and mast light under power. Turn off the mast light when I turn off the engine. Mast light is incandescent but don’t care about the electron drain either engine on. The bicolor and sternlight are LED’s so minimal drain under sail. Also have a mast head Tricolor and anchor light but seldom use them. Bought the LED fixture in a weak EBay moment. The mast head running light does give greater range and lights up the Windex but like the mental comfort of seeing the reflection of the red and green light on now and stern light in the cockpit. Not a fan of mast head anchor lights as the dumb overpowered small boat drivers seldom seem to look where they are going and never look up.

[OS2Dude]

From multiple posts I've read from people on merchant ships at sea, they prefer the Red over Green at the mast head and side lights. Mast head tricolors can look like you are farther away then you are.


Since lights have meanings, I am opposed to the idea that the 'more the better'. Several folks in my area run with their anchor light illuminated. They are running side lights and stern lights, but still have the anchor light. I don't know if they are using the anchor light to illuminate their windex, or think it helps people 'see' them easier. To me it is a pain to have to study their movements to see if they really are at anchor or just ignorant.

I also dislike boats that have a million lights: Deck Lights, Underwater Lights, Spot Lights, etc. Makes seeing the actual navigation lights very difficult.

[tarian]

it seems that people keep mentioning Merchant Shipping , now if the so called merchant shipping , does not have its Radar on and picking up your AIS signal , then I would not worry about them seeing your lights , it means the officer on Watch is sleeping.
So get out there wa,y and do not hope that you are being seen , and do not sit there shouting the Colregs at him as they bear down on you , or better still get on your VHF and tell him your there.
Just my pennies worth,
Also if it is bad form to sail with a tricolor inland , why do the Colregs not say so. this is an interpretation of peoples own mind set, just like anchors, and sailing styles, your insurance nor the law will give you a hard time if you sail with a Tri color , only.
But as everything in life there is a risk factor and it is better to be seen and have 2 ways of being seen , hence the tri color and the side light option in case of a fault with either one.

[OS2Dude]

Not everyone has an AIS transponder, and medium sized sailboats do not always show up well on radar. Once in NY Harbor we were almost run down at night entering the Hudson River by a tug.


And NO, it is not better to 'be seen' if it causes confusion as to where/what you are.

[Scott Berg]

When Sailing:

Red over Green on the Mast
Side Lights and Stern Light

When engine in gear:
Masthead Light Lit (and Red over Green Off)

The ColRegs are VERY clear about this. I'm not a fan of a tricolor but think it makes sense for some smaller boats with limited power; LED's make that less critical

[tarian]

Originally Posted by OS2Dude

Not everyone has an AIS transponder, and medium sized sailboats do not always show up well on radar. Once in NY Harbor we were almost run down at night entering the Hudson River by a tug.


And NO, it is not better to 'be seen' if it causes confusion as to where/what you are.

If you don;t have a transponder then I suggest every yacht gets one, and any medium sized yacht that does not have a decent Radar reflector high up on their masts are putting their life at risk , and did you not see the tugs lights , which i Presume would have been well lit up ,
Therefore why did you not get out the way or call them up , in most cases its poor lookouts from the Yachts themselves that can be the problem.
Do not ever assume that all people on the water will obey the rules , they do not on the roads so why on sea, if you take enough responsibility on your own and use initiative them you will have less problems with being Rammed
IMHO

[CarinaPDX]

Yes, we all should re-read the COLREGS from time to time, and take them to heart. Using non-standard lighting just creates confusion so stick with one of the approved configurations. I don't like using anything at the top of the mast when in busy areas; as others have said, the tricolor is just too easy to miss with lights ashore in the background. The same applies to masthead anchor lights; I prefer to rig a hanging light just above the height of the boom such that it illuminates the boat without flooding the interior with light. A lit-up boat is much easier for others to avoid, especially after an evening at the pub.

I hadn't appreciated that the tricolor may not be the best option at sea as far as visibility to merchant ships. My Carina has a low freeboard and thus the deck-level lights are often obscured by waves - there is no perfect solution. Radar and AIS are our friends...

As far as the COLREGS, the great majority of cruisers regularly flaunt them with their RIBs. If it is capable of 7 knots or more it should have an all-round white plus red/green bow light(s), which is to say any dinghy capable of planing needs them (see International Rule 23). With my old dinghy I added a "lighting kit" to the outboard, which generated 12V AC for incandescent lights. The all-round white light was mounted on the inside of the transom and was tall enough to be more than 1m above the bow light (a legal requirement) and also over my head for visibility. Wiring was run forward inside the tube cover (chaps) and the bow light was mounted to the cover. On the new dinghy I will be using battery-powered LEDs for simplicity. With these available there is no longer an excuse for not showing the legal lights, if there ever was.

Greg