do you use side lights or tricolor?

[s/v Jedi]

So in all this confusion, here's how it ought to be done for sailboats under 20 meters

Navlights to be operated by one single rotary switch with multiple positions as follows:

1 - OFF
2 - NAVLIGHTS POWER (side lights, stern light and steaming light)
3 - NAVLIGHTS SAIL (side lights and stern light)
4 - TRICOLOR (just the top tricolor light)
5 - ANCHOR (just the top anchor light)

all problems of wrong combinations solved... enforcing lawful lamp combinations

[Pelagic]

I am a pragmatist. I adjust my priorities to the conditions and screw the COLREGS if they interfere.

Bow mounted Red and Green can often refect off of bow waves, headsails or stainless at night .

If that spoils my night vision I turn them off and resort to the mast top red over green, even if I am motor sailing.
My Forward Mast spreader lights can be flashed on if inside 1nm CPA

Especially if I see via radar a whole bunch of unlit fishing canoes (Bancas) here in the Philippines

The priority is to see which ones are fishing in tandom and which way they are directing you with their small flashlights

Don't get stuck on the minuate of Rules, but think instead of Seamanship.

You need to see and you need to be seen.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I am a pragmatist. I adjust my priorities to the conditions and screw the COLREGS if they interfere.

Bow mounted Red and Green can often refect off of bow waves, headsails or stainless at night .

If that spoils my night vision I turn them off and resort to the mast top red over green, even if I am motor sailing.
My Forward Mast spreader lights can be flashed on if inside 1nm CPA

Especially if I see via radar a whole bunch of unlit fishing canoes (Bancas) here in the PhilippinesAttachment 186607

The priority is to see which ones are fishing in tandom and which way they are directing you with their small flashlights

Don't get stuck on the minuate of Rules, but think instead of Seamanship.

You need to see and you need to be seen.

I think this is right, but don't discount the havoc which can result from being misunderstood, if you have the wrong lights on.


Job 1 is being seen at all, and may be a matter of life and death, but the very next job, not so much less important, is knowing what kind of vessel you are dealing with, what is its aspect, and who is going to maneuver when.


That being said, why do we have nav lights that ruin our night vision? I have the same problem. I suppose that screens might help.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Job 1 is being seen at all, and may be a matter of life and death, but the very next job, not so much less important, is knowing what kind of vessel you are dealing with, what is its aspect, and who is going to maneuver when.


That being said, why do we have nav lights that ruin our night vision? I have the same problem. I suppose that screens might help.

I understand and agree with your points DH but would qualify that seeing is Job 1 as it is the very definition of being a "watch"keeper and we should never assume, that you have been seen.

My impression is that COLREGS have given modern sailboats a pass on the positioning details of sidelights due to design and physical constraints.
Commercial craft position side lights up and behind the bridge wings and away from interfering with lookouts

On sailboats over 50m I have skippered, the positioning and spacing have all followed the COLREG Annexes.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That being said, why do we have nav lights that ruin our night vision? I have the same problem. I suppose that screens might help.

By chance, luck or very clever design our side lights, a combined bow light, just slightly reflect some light off the pullpit which tells me the bulb is working and therefore I can been seen, also which lights I am showing. However, I need to wander over to the side of the cockpit but it is kind of reassuring. The masthead light fwd when motor sailing isn't too much of a problem, perhaps its not very bright

Being a little boat, we can use the anchor light and the side lights when motoring, but that is getting a bit confusing and I prefer the KISS approach.

[Spot]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

So in all this confusion, here's how it ought to be done for sailboats under 20 meters

Navlights to be operated by one single rotary switch with multiple positions as follows:

1 - OFF
2 - NAVLIGHTS POWER (side lights, stern light and steaming light)
3 - NAVLIGHTS SAIL (side lights and stern light)
4 - TRICOLOR (just the top tricolor light)
5 - ANCHOR (just the top anchor light)

all problems of wrong combinations solved... enforcing lawful lamp combinations

^ This is an interesting solution ^
Thanks Everyone for fielding my questions earlier.

I started doing the lights with SPDT switches on mine because I...um...was out of SPST 's. Now I think I could manage all the lights on my 21' boat with 3 SPDT switches.


1. Steaming-off-Red over Green
2. Navigation (sides and stern)-off-Anchor
3. Cabin white-off-Cabin Red

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Green over green etc.... ie vertical.... sorry bout that....
Q not directed at you personaly but at general readership.... failure to answer correctly on the instant would see you failing 2nd mate's Orals....

Ah got it now. I was imaging a horizontal string of green green red white red red red, which caused me to have a puzzled dog look.

If I saw those lights come out of the mist and it was very close, without hesitation, I would with urgency say to my crew mate: Here hold my beer! and then with hands freed I would maneuver toward green or stop. Followed by: Please may I have my beer back? assuming my mate had not chugged it.

I have come upon dredges operating during the day clearing a channel using the day symbols but have not viewed one in the night. Becomes quite colorful and as the third illustration below shows the standard navigation side lights and with the restricted in maneuvering lights [red over white over red] and the safe and danger side designation.

So I am wondering does a dredge operating at night that is blocking the entire channel display twin red lights on both port and starboard to indicate that there is no safe passage? I.e., telling vessels to stop and not to proceed. I have come upon a dredge operating in the day that did block the channel making for no navigable passage, everyone just turned around realizing it was No Go, but thankful that the dredge was clearing a wider and deeper passage. How does a vessel indicate a Detour or Road Closed?

When I make presentations [or publications or webpages] I purposefully avoid using red or green so as to be able to allow for red / green colorblind persons to be able to discern the information I am conveying. I will apply various colorblind imaging to my presentations so as to be able to view my work as how others may see it and then alter my presentation so as to make it clear to those that have color viewing issues. I have also had machine control stations modified so as to not just have red and green, instead I have mounted in big bold letters OFF to designate the kill switch and not just the usual red coloring. During WWII, my dad who was in the US Army Air Corp desired to become a pilot so he memorized the color blindness test so as to be able to answer it correctly. But he was offered the opportunity to go to Officer Training School instead of being a pilot so he chose the school that gave him the leadership training and made a career of the military. Correctly gauging the tower and runway lights when color blind would have been a real challenge, I think he would have eventually been found out or would have crashed out, e.g., landing from the wrong direction. The new glasses that allow for color blind persons to see colors correctly are amazing. It brings tears to your eyes to watch a color blind person see colors for the first time and it typically brings tears to the color blind person when they first see the fuller range of colors.

[SV_Harbinger]

Which I use is entirely dependent on where I am and what I'm doing. If I am near shore or in a particularly high traffic area I use my side lights and stern light, because there the lights being closer to the water will actually increase visability because most operators in those areas are looking closer to the water. In an area either off shore or transited by big ships I feel the tri color will be better seen both because of the increased range gifted by increased hight and the fact that the lights are more at eye level for those on the bridge of the big ships....

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

If that spoils my night vision I turn them off and resort to the mast top red over green, even if I am motor sailing.

Maintaining (at least the possibility) of good dark adaptation is the difficulty with the red over green option. This was ultimately why I decided to stay with the more common tricolour/ lower navigation option with my new build.

I have seen some boats with the lower navigation lights (port and starboard) placed at the stern (on the solar arch ) instead of the bow. This would seem a good solution and is perfectly legal. This should help the dark adaptation issue when operating the lower navigation lights, which of course need to be on all the time at night if you choose the red over green option. But I have never sailed on a boat equipped with stern mounted navigation lights, so maybe it is not a help, or maybe it is only a help for those yachts with a wide beam at the stern (so called pizza shaped yachts). Does anyone have any experience with this?

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

So in all this confusion, here's how it ought to be done for sailboats under 20 meters



Navlights to be operated by one single rotary switch with multiple positions as follows:



1 - OFF

2 - NAVLIGHTS POWER (side lights, stern light and steaming light)

3 - NAVLIGHTS SAIL (side lights and stern light)

4 - TRICOLOR (just the top tricolor light)

5 - ANCHOR (just the top anchor light)



all problems of wrong combinations solved... enforcing lawful lamp combinations

That’s what I’m setting up to do on my boat except I’m going for 4 positions.
1 - OFF
2- SAILING (tricolor + marker lights at edge of hull below shear)
3- POWERING (bicolor on pulpit, all around anchor light at masthead, marker lights)
4-ANCHORED (all around anchor light at masthead, marker lights)

I’ve got a switch that indexes about 20* between positions. I would like to find a switch that indexes 90*, easier to describe what I want when a send a newbie below. If anybody knows an source for an appropriate size 4t2p switch that indexes 90* let me know.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Adelie

That’s what I’m setting up to do on my boat except I’m going for 4 positions.
1 - OFF
2- SAILING (tricolor + marker lights at edge of hull below shear)
3- POWERING (bicolor on pulpit, all around anchor light at masthead, marker lights)
4-ANCHORED (all around anchor light at masthead, marker lights)

I’ve got a switch that indexes about 20* between positions. I would like to find a switch that indexes 90*, easier to describe what I want when a send a newbie below. If anybody knows an source for an appropriate size 4t2p switch that indexes 90* let me know.

You need to read and understand the regulations, you have it all wrong. Jedi has it correct. There are logical reasons why the colregs are the way they are.

[FlightPlan]

I have both, but use my side lights. I cannot see if my tri-color is lit from anywhere on the boat. I would use the Tri for its strobe in an emergency.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

You need to read and understand the regulations, you have it all wrong. Jedi has it correct. There are logical reasons why the colregs are the way they are.

Try again Ken I think I got it right. You got a specific point make it.

[FlightPlan]

Tri light is optional, but if used, it is stand alone. No side lights. At anchor, only use 360 deg masthead light, no side lights. Adelie is all wrong. Under power, the masthead 360 should not be used, sidelights OR Tri-color with a steaming light in both cases.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by FlightPlan

Tri light is optional, but if used, it is stand alone. No side lights. At anchor, only use 360 deg masthead light, no side lights. Adelie is all wrong. Under power, the masthead 360 should not be used, sidelights OR Tri-color with a steaming light in both cases.

So sorry. My boat is small enough to combine masthead (225* steaming light) with the sternlight. Hence the 360* white anchor light plus the bicolor on the pulpit meets requirements for motoring.