do you use side lights or tricolor?

[Discovery 15797]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I am a pragmatist. I adjust my priorities to the conditions and screw the COLREGS if they interfere.

Don't get stuck on the minuate of Rules, but think instead of Seamanship.

You need to see and you need to be seen.

There isa distinct difference between being pragmatic, and being held liable in case of a collision at sea.

And, I'm sure you know... If a banca boat or other vessel rams you at night and you are not displaying the correct lights... You are at least partially at fault. Period.

Good luck with your pragmatism.

The pragmatist in me made me relocate my side lights to minimize reflection.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Try again Ken I think I got it right. You got a specific point make it.

I thought we were discussing the OP’s boat. I’ll leave the discussion now since these rules issues always seem to end in ridiculous arguments. Bye bye.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

So in all this confusion, here's how it ought to be done for sailboats under 20 meters

Navlights to be operated by one single rotary switch with multiple positions as follows:

1 - OFF
2 - NAVLIGHTS POWER (side lights, stern light and steaming light)
3 - NAVLIGHTS SAIL (side lights and stern light)
4 - TRICOLOR (just the top tricolor light)
5 - ANCHOR (just the top anchor light)

all problems of wrong combinations solved... enforcing lawful lamp combinations

It is great to see you back Jedi, but do you really think those rotary switches are the best solution for the obviously more intelligent, more informed, astute readers of Cruisers Forum .

Sure they prevent selecting the wrong combination of navigation lights, but it is hard to imagine that this would be error someone who took the trouble to read this thread would make.

Unfortunately, the rotary switch solution, while “idiot proof” means the failure of a single switch could disable all your navigational lights.

Some light is better than no light.

The rotary switch prevents the selection of incorrect options, but these “incorrect” solutions may be the best answer to deal, temporarily, with the falure of an individual navigational light.

[Ambler]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

G'day Wayne,

yep... some bloke I ran into in GH a few years back... golly.... three years already....

Care to share what you have and how you installed them?

Ping

Sure can,
I decided to replace my tricolour with a red over green as I found just running a tricolour light gave no indication of how far away that single red (or green) (or white in amongst the stars) was. A near collision got me questioning how I looked from another vessels perspective.
The red over green has a 1 metre seperation which gives some perspective to distance off. Then the sidelights 2 metres above the water gives the person on watch your angle of approach, they also know by now you are a sailing machine and could change course erratically (tack) as we do.
Anyway I bought a green all round light then drilled a hole in the top and mounted a plastic 1/2" skin fitting which I sleeved an old fibreglass tubular pole over. At the top of the pole I epoxy glued a flange and mounted the red all round light. I replaced the globes with a red and a green LED globe.

I am experimenting with a collapsible pole using a plastic canopy fitting which will lay the pole over if a bridge prevents my extra 1 metre loss of height clearance.

While parked in Auckland there were two superyachts with the red upper light flashing throughout the night. I doubt they were refueling but noted the number of helicopters from a nearby heliport may have had something to do with the red flashing lights on towers and tall buildings near airports. Perhaps I can fit a red over green flasher at night as well as my anchor light just above (and illuminating) my white cabin top?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

It is great to see you back Jedi, but do you really think those rotary switches are the best solution for the obviously more intelligent, more informed, astute readers of Cruisers Forum .

Sure they prevent selecting the wrong combination of navigation lights, but it is hard to imagine that this would be error someone who took the trouble to read this thread would make.

Unfortunately, the rotary switch solution, while “idiot proof” means the failure of a single switch could disable all your navigational lights.

Some light is better than no light.

The rotary switch prevents the selection of incorrect options, but these “incorrect” solutions may be the best answer to deal, temporarily, with the falure of an individual navigational light.

I don't see anything wrong with the all-in-one rotary switch. Switch failure can be overcome with 5 minutes of work.


But mine are much simpler -- just individual controls of each set of lights:


Nav lights -- deck-level sidelights and stern light
Steaming light
Tricolor
Anchor


Yes, you can set wrong combinations, but I haven't noticed that there's a big risk of that.



Thread drift -- but the biggest problem I have with my nav light controls, is that after converting to LED, the indicators showing at the switch panel whether they are working or not, are not working.



I really liked having those, versus climbing around the boat to check whether they are all working. I guess there is some kind of a circuit which detects current flowing -- maybe I just change the diode or whatever is used?

[FlightPlan]

Exactly my setup as well:


Nav lights -- deck-level sidelights and stern light
Steaming light
Tricolor
Anchor

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by FlightPlan

Tri light is optional, but if used, it is stand alone. No side lights. At anchor, only use 360 deg masthead light, no side lights. Adelie is all wrong. Under power, the masthead 360 should not be used, sidelights OR Tri-color with a steaming light in both cases.

Oh dear.......

[s/v Jedi]

Here's the physical setup aboard Jedi:

[FlightPlan]

Never mind

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Here's the physical setup aboard Jedi:

Really nice setup (as expected) Nick
Mine are all individually cintrolled with breakers which does make changing a light bulb easier at night.
I also find the stern light useful for stern boarding at night, so that is another reason I am happy with individual switches.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Discovery 15797

There isa distinct difference between being pragmatic, and being held liable in case of a collision at sea.

And, I'm sure you know... If a banca boat or other vessel rams you at night and you are not displaying the correct lights... You are at least partially at fault. Period.

Good luck with your pragmatism.

The pragmatist in me made me relocate my side lights to minimize reflection.

I agree change it!
While I don't have that problem on my own boat, some I have delivered are just terrible.

One italian Super yacht had the lower mast steaming light flood the bow so when the top one failed and I switched to the lower backup, it was as if the foredeck working lights were on.... I chose to switch it off until we could fix the top one.

There is a big difference between the Visayan Sea and Puget Sound as in the latter, the thousands of small fisherman are depending on you to See them.

No radio, weak flashlights or kerosene lanterns, poor radar return, you really have to have a lookout with good night vision focused on spotting weak signals as they try to get out of your way.
You need to protect your own to confirm their movements

Yes, in that part of the world, the small fisherman moves , so if you do avoidance changes amongst a bunch of them....it really confuses them.

My simple point is that if you find a nav light interfering with your night vision....Turn it Off!

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by FlightPlan

Never mind

Oh dear, so sad, never mind....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nXWdG9E7tQ

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

My simple point is that if you find a nav light interfering with your night vision....Turn it Off!

Isn't that covered in rule 2b? If doing the right thing there and then isn't in the rules then don't worry about the rules and do the right thing.

[Cpt Pat]

Originally Posted by FlightPlan

Tri light is optional, but if used, it is stand alone. No side lights. At anchor, only use 360 deg masthead light, no side lights. Adelie is all wrong. Under power, the masthead 360 should not be used, sidelights OR Tri-color with a steaming light in both cases.

I just nodded and assumed you were right, but... I went back and looked at the rules. The illustration for Rule 25(b) clearly shows the tri-color without side lights, but I see no prohibition in the text about running the side lights. That's probably an unintentional omission. I'm referring to this document, page 73: https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/navRules/navrules.pdf

The text for Rule 25(c) does logically prohibit running the red-over-green config with a tri-color...

Either somebody goofed, I'm overlooking something, or the rules should be interpreted as: "everything is prohibited if not explicitly permitted here." But then, why the redundant explicit prohibitive text in Rule 25(c) about tri-colors? Am I right to be confused? Have I spent too much time being around lawyers?

[Uricanejack]

Originally Posted by conachair

Question for the ship drivers - how useful to you guys is angood radar return, in a black and white/ this or that world would a good radar return be better than good nav lights? Obviously both in the real world but closer to shore do you guys rely less on radar and more on visual? Or does it not work like that ?
Ta

No it doesn’t work like that. It’s not a black and white answer.
It’s a Weelll it depends answer.

Good vis good lights for sure. Poor still good lights. This is when you really want good lights JIK.
Even Crappy lights can be seen in good conditions. If conditions are crappy then you need good lights.

So priority is being well lite.

Very poor visibility or fog. Lights want help you till to late. Best to be a good radarvtarget as well.

Heavy rain can virtually blind a radar. Even regular rain can impair a radar. Good set of light can be seen through rain a radar has trouble with.

So fit a good reflector and a good set of bright lights.
Preferably the correct ones for your vessel. Which allows you to choose a tri colour. Combined bow light Or side lights. And stern light with a master head for under power.

You choose what you like.

Personally. I have the traditional rain catching reflector on the back stay. I don’t have a tricolour and have no intention of fitting one. I have good side lights and stern light and mast head. Which is my choice for my boat.

I ask carry some batter back up emergency lights JIK.

PS there is often pretty big trees in the water here. I don’t want to be mistaken for a tree at night.