Dutch light yacht registration - scam or legit?

[Username25]

“This document can not be interpreted as giving Dutch nationality to the craft, nor does it constitute the right to fly the flag of the Kingdom of the Netherlands as defined by Article 9 of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS). Consequently the Kingdom of the Netherlands does not accept any of the responsibilities listed in article 94 of UNCLOS.”

https://oceanskies.com/yachts/guides...tion-a-warning

Get yourself a proper registration, e.g. in Poland or UK.

[navado]

Originally Posted by Lorrendraaier

In general, if the boat is owned by a UK company and purchased out-side of the EU, then it has been imported. Therefore import duties should have been paid as well as VAT. If and when navigating EU waters and the authorities ask for prove and you can not present such prove, you will have to pay in full, including a fine.

As it seems is there is no problem with stays less than 18 months.
Another topic is regarding pist-brexit world
What's now?

[TonyBoat]

Update on the Dutch ICP

As some of the other members on this forum have mentioned the Dutch ICP registration is a boat ownership document and not an actual flag registration. However, in this capacity, it is accepted in most countries in Europe without any issues.

Since the Dutch government decided to change the description of the flag on the registration form from Dutch to Not Applicable in 2018, there have been 2 countries that have issues with the Dutch ICP; Portugal immediately notified all boat owners that they no longer accepted the Dutch ICP as a valid document in their waters and last month, Italy started to notify some boat owners of the same. In Italy, it currently depends on which port your vessel is based but I expect this to get worse over time.

There is however a simple solution for anybody who needs to find another solution versus the Dutch ICP; you can register in Poland and have an actual flag registration that is valid around the world and for the life of your boat. You will find several companies that offer help with the Polish registration and it is only slightly more expensive then the Dutch ICP.

Hope this helps!

[southatlantic]

Thank you. I am looking into bringing my boat to Portugal and have been doing research on the registration issue. I came to the same conclusion on Poland as the best solution. It is nice to see it confirmed by someone with greater experience.

[Coral Trekker]

I had a Panama flag and as a Swiss with a Panama flagged boat nobody gave me a TPL insurance. I changed to EU ICP light and got a TPL insurance from Pantaenius.
I left French Polynesia and entered Fidji without any problems. It ain’t a scam and I am very happy.
What is a scam that Panama wants 2000 us$ for a cancellation certificate. That is more than the two years registration fee. I refused to pay into that scam.
It would really be tome for the IMO to vlean up this pleasure craft registration mess worldwide!!

Originally Posted by navado

Greetings.
I'm sure you have met light version of Dutch yacht registration. There are several agents over the internet selling it at the same price. The issued certificate looks like in the attachment but containing suspecious fields - there is no vessel registration number and the flag is not applicable.

I suspect it's some kind of scam or invalid/not recognized registration for international usage. The registring agent assures that he has boats cruising the world with such registration with no problems.
My concern is that every proper international check-in with officials you have to specify flag and registration numbers. But probably there are other options too.
Do you think this is legit registration?
What does this mean regarding flag and tax?

Appreciate reference to official sources or documents.
Thanks in advance.

[BM2023]

Please do realise that the ICP is officially only for navigating the internal waters of the EU. An increasing number of countries no longer accept the ICP as proof of ownership. Last year Portugal banned the ICP al together and more recently Italy checks documents of ICP holders more strictly.

For example they fined boats flying the Dutch flag, as the document clear states "flag : non applicable" and that flying the Dutch flag is prohibited. Furthermore a number of boat owners were heavily fined, because they were commercial exploiting their vessel with an ICP, something that is also not permitted for ICP holders.

[Coral Trekker]

Thanks for your clarification at times I see boats flying a European flag. Are these may be ICP holders? Because some places require to fly a flag and show the home port on the stearn of the vessel.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Lorrendraaier

Please do realise that the ICP is officially only for navigating the internal waters of the EU. An increasing number of countries no longer accept the ICP as proof of ownership. Last year Portugal banned the ICP al together and more recently Italy checks documents of ICP holders more strictly.

For example they fined boats flying the Dutch flag, as the document clear states "flag : non applicable" and that flying the Dutch flag is prohibited. Furthermore a number of boat owners were heavily fined, because they were commercial exploiting their vessel with an ICP, something that is also not permitted for ICP holders.

Exactly, the ICP does not convey nationality to the vessel. And it would be illegal to fly a flag per UNCLOS. The unflagged boat is in fact NOT A FOREIGN SHIP per say, is is simply an undocumented vessel and as such it is immediately subject to the laws of the nation upon which waters it resides. That is to say, it is a boat that is not registered by the nation state in which it is located. Because the boat is unflagged, it not a "foreign" ship and thus is not even accorded the right of innocent passage through a territorial sea.

UNCLOS
SECTION 3. INNOCENT PASSAGE IN THE TERRITORIAL SEA
SUBSECTION A. RULES APPLICABLE TO ALL SHIPS
Article 17
Right of innocent passage
Subject to this Convention, ships of all States, whether coastal or
land-locked, enjoy the right of innocent passage through the territorial sea.

Nor is the vessel even accorded the protection and privilege to freedom of navigation to the high seas.

Article 90
Right of navigation
Every State, whether coastal or land-locked, has the right to sail ships
flying its flag on the high seas.

Article 91
Nationality of ships
1. Every State shall fix the conditions for the grant of its nationality to
ships, for the registration of ships in its territory, and for the right to fly its
flag. Ships have the nationality of the State whose flag they are entitled to
fly. There must exist a genuine link between the State and the ship.
2. Every State shall issue to ships to which it has granted the right to
fly its flag documents to that effect.


Article 92
Status of ships
1. Ships shall sail under the flag of one State only and, save in
exceptional cases expressly provided for in international treaties or in this
Convention, shall be subject to its exclusive jurisdiction on the high seas.
A ship may not change its flag during a voyage or while in a port of call, save in the case of a real transfer of ownership or change of registry.
2. A ship which sails under the flags of two or more States, using them
according to convenience, may not claim any of the nationalities in question
with respect to any other State, and may be assimilated to a ship without
nationality.

Article 94
Duties of the flag State
1. Every State shall effectively exercise its jurisdiction and control in
administrative, technical and social matters over ships flying its flag.
2. In particular every State shall:
(a) maintain a register of ships containing the names and particulars
of ships flying its flag, except those which are excluded from
generally accepted international regulations on account of their
small size; and
(b) assume jurisdiction under its internal law over each ship flying
its flag and its master, officers and crew in respect of
administrative, technical and social matters concerning the ship.
3. Every State shall take such measures for ships flying its flag as are
necessary to ensure safety at sea with regard, inter alia, to:
(a) the construction, equipment and seaworthiness of ships;
(b) the manning of ships, labour conditions and the training of
crews, taking into account the applicable international
instruments;
(c) the use of signals, the maintenance of communications and the
prevention of collisions.
4. Such measures shall include those necessary to ensure:
(a) that each ship, before registration and thereafter at appropriate
intervals, is surveyed by a qualified surveyor of ships, and has
on board such charts, nautical publications and navigational
equipment and instruments as are appropriate for the safe
navigation of the ship;
(b) that each ship is in the charge of a master and officers who
possess appropriate qualifications, in particular in seamanship,
navigation, communications and marine engineering, and that
the crew is appropriate in qualification and numbers for the
type, size, machinery and equipment of the ship;
(c) that the master, officers and, to the extent appropriate, the crew
are fully conversant with and required to observe the applicable
international regulations concerning the safety of life at sea, the
prevention of collisions, the prevention, reduction and control
of marine pollution, and the maintenance of communications by
radio.
5. In taking the measures called for in paragraphs 3 and 4 each State is
required to conform to generally accepted international regulations,
procedures and practices and to take any steps which may be necessary to
secure their observance.
6. A State which has clear grounds to believe that proper jurisdiction
and control with respect to a ship have not been exercised may report the facts
to the flag State. Upon receiving such a report, the flag State shall investigate
the matter and, if appropriate, take any action necessary to remedy the
situation.
7. Each State shall cause an inquiry to be held by or before a suitably
qualified person or persons into every marine casualty or incident of
navigation on the high seas involving a ship flying its flag and causing loss
of life or serious injury to nationals of another State or serious damage to
ships or installations of another State or to the marine environment. The flag
State and the other State shall cooperate in the conduct of any inquiry held by that other State into any such marine casualty or incident of navigation.

Also an ICP does not avail a registry for preferential mortgage liens, nor accords clarity of maritime law provisions for insurance.

An ICP has only the limited usefulness of availing specific internal waterway passages. It is not even proof of ownership as it does not provide titling.

[Bycrick]

The issue with Panama registration isn’t a scam. Panama has an INTERNAL registration which is cheap and easy. The EXTERNAL/INTERNATIONAL registration is designed for large ships. Hence it's expensive for yachts. They’re apparently not interested in registering a bunch of yachts. So, if you have a choice, don’t register the boat in Panama. If you want to buy a Panamanian boat, make sure the owner de registers it before the sale.

[BM2023]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Exactly, the ICP does not convey nationality to the vessel. And it would be illegal to fly a flag per UNCLOS. The unflagged boat is in fact NOT A FOREIGN SHIP per say, is is simply an undocumented vessel and as such it is immediately subject to the laws of the nation upon which waters it resides. That is to say, it is a boat that is not registered by the nation state in which it is located. Because the boat is unflagged, it not a "foreign" ship and thus is not even accorded the right of innocent passage through a territorial sea.

A more than excellent summary, my compliments.

[Montanan]

FYI: Some boaters from the USA title and register their boats with one of the 50 states and do not have their boat documented by the Federal government via the United States Coast Guard Navigation Center. Boats that are titled at the State level are not flagged vessels, per say. A State of the United States is not a party to UNCLOS. A State of the United States is not a Nation state. A State of the United States is not permitted to enter into treaty obligations with foreign nations. If one desires to travel outside of the waters of the United States then one should have your vessel be granted a nationality, e.g., as an American vessel [accomplished by having it documented with the USCG] or registered by an open registry country.

Note that in the United States, a vessel is not allowed to be titled simultaneously with the Federal Government by being documented, and at the same time titled by a State government. Depending on which State the vessel may be located in that State's territory, the vessel [which may also be documented with the USCG] may also need to be registered with that State. State registration is distinct from State titling. 50 States, 50 distinct set of State regulations. E pluribus unum and all.