EU Citizen, EU Boat, Spain, Portugal Taxes

[Franziska]

Hi,

we are EU citizens with an EU flagged boat. Currently cruising in Spain and Portugal.
We are very slowly and with lots of stops sailing towards Algarve.
Since we have lots of solar and I do use quite some electricity to run my work computer, I am thinking if I will stay on the boat over winter instead of taking a break back home.
It would save me the travel costs and electricity costs at home.

Here is the question, I do not want to become a resident in Spain or Portugal and do not want to tax register there.

We are currently in Northern Spain (Since start of July) and will enter Portugal in about 4-6 weeks.

We'll sail casually down to Algarve next, where we will likely be in September.

Originally we were to put her on the hard between November and March, but I contemplate another path now.
Now here is the question, if I decide to stay on the hook and on board over winter say until March, would I then need to sail to Spain to avoid being a taxable resident in Portugal (or Spain)?

Boat is EU registered, EU Vat paid and crew is EU Citizen.

Maybe someone has already researched this?
Thanks for sharing your experience.

[more]

Temporary stay 3 month you dont do nothing
temporary residence over 3 month need address
https://balcellsgroup.com/move-to-sp...has_to_realize

if i be on your spot leave spain couple days stay in hotel gibraltar,france.portugal,Maroko and reset clock and have proff on credit card,invoice

[more]

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizen...e/index_en.htm

[boatman61]

Portugal is a European Union member state and grants visa-free entry to all EU/EFTA citizens, as well as certain family members and relatives even if they are not from the EU themselves. EU nationals can enter the country for three months with the aim of finding a job or setting up a business. Once hired, EU nationals have the same rights as Portuguese workers.

Portugal is also part of the Schengen Area, which is made up of 26 European countries with no border controls between them. Citizens of Schengen countries can travel freely between one country and another without a passport. Additionally, they only need an identification document to enter Portugal.

While EU/EFTA citizens have the right to freely move to Portugal, they must request a registration certificate if they stay for longer than three months. EU citizens can also request a permanent residence certificate after five years.

Basically you have to register your presence if land based, however living in a boat changes things.
If for example you base yourself on the Algarve where there are at least 5 very well sheltered anchorages.. Alvor, Portimao, Faro, Olhau, Tavira, you could also go up the Guadiana which is the Portugal/Spain border.
If you anchor in say Tavira it is a short hop (6hrs) across the border to Rompido or if you choose you could go to the shelter of Puerto de Sanlucar de Guadiana for a few days.
My own experience is if you keep moving your pretty much ignored while on the hook.. liveaboard full time for 18mths on the Algarve moving between anchorages before I chose to go for Portuguese residency in '09 as I could see BREXIT looming in the future.

[Franziska]

Thanks guys, good thoughts and info.

[Pete7]

Whilst solar is probably working very well at the moment, will it support you during the depths of winter? and how about heating etc?

As Phil (Boatman61) suggests, hoping home for Xmas would solve the problem nicely.

Pete

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Whilst solar is probably working very well at the moment, will it support you during the depths of winter? and how about heating etc?



As Phil (Boatman61) suggests, hoping home for Xmas would solve the problem nicely.



Pete

I'd hope so, weather there should definitely be nicer than up north.
In the worst case I can top up with the genset...

Undecided yet, and yes a X-mas flight would be nice if they don't get crazy expensive.
What would be most feared though would be not to make it back to the boat due to Covid or travel prices or a deteriorating situation of that stupid war.

Anyway, for now we feel in heaven and we know and appreciate it.

[iabmatos]

As for TAX residence, if I understood it right, as you go over 183 days in a country in the fiscal year (1 Jan - 31 Dec in EU), you are deemed tax resident in that country. It does not need to be consecutive days. This is more or less standard everywhere.

Enjoy your stay

Ismael

[ixnax]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Portugal is a European Union member state and grants visa-free entry to all EU/EFTA citizens, as well as certain family members and relatives even if they are not from the EU themselves. EU nationals can enter the country for three months with the aim of finding a job or setting up a business. Once hired, EU nationals have the same rights as Portuguese workers.

Portugal is also part of the Schengen Area, which is made up of 26 European countries with no border controls between them. Citizens of Schengen countries can travel freely between one country and another without a passport. Additionally, they only need an identification document to enter Portugal.

While EU/EFTA citizens have the right to freely move to Portugal, they must request a registration certificate if they stay for longer than three months. EU citizens can also request a permanent residence certificate after five years.

Basically you have to register your presence if land based, however living in a boat changes things.
If for example you base yourself on the Algarve where there are at least 5 very well sheltered anchorages.. Alvor, Portimao, Faro, Olhau, Tavira, you could also go up the Guadiana which is the Portugal/Spain border.
If you anchor in say Tavira it is a short hop (6hrs) across the border to Rompido or if you choose you could go to the shelter of Puerto de Sanlucar de Guadiana for a few days.
My own experience is if you keep moving your pretty much ignored while on the hook.. liveaboard full time for 18mths on the Algarve moving between anchorages before I chose to go for Portuguese residency in '09 as I could see BREXIT looming in the future.

I so enjoyed jerking your chain a year or so ago, no regrets, but that's not my problem. My problem is that I am a yachtie now bumping up against my Portuguese residency and, as many are after improprieties, eager for advice. Can you make any recommendations?

[geoff3nebel]

The Algarve has 300 days of full sun in a year. In November, December and January -the shortest days of the year - there are more than 9 1/2 hours of daylight to keep solar panels charged.
I realise that availability of current and consumption depends on the size of solar panels and what they are powering.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by geoff3nebel

The Algarve has 300 days of full sun in a year. In November, December and January -the shortest days of the year - there are more than 9 1/2 hours of daylight to keep solar panels charged.

I realise that availability of current and consumption depends on the size of solar panels and what they are powering.

Thanks Geoff, 1200w Solar, 840Ah Battery, 350w powerful workstation.
Guess it will be ok [emoji846]

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by ixnax

I so enjoyed jerking your chain a year or so ago, no regrets, but that's not my problem. My problem is that I am a yachtie now bumping up against my Portuguese residency and, as many are after improprieties, eager for advice. Can you make any recommendations?

Bumping up against your residency is a bit vague.. something you wish to avoid.? something you wish to get.??

[ixnax]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Bumping up against your residency is a bit vague.. something you wish to avoid.? something you wish to get.??

Wish to get, actually, will get by years end. Seems like a great location to wind things down.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by ixnax

Wish to get, actually, will get by years end. Seems like a great location to wind things down.

If you can meet the financial requirements and have a fixed land base easy peasey, foreign income is loved by all.