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Auspicious · 30-07-2014, 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellosailor

If the MMSI is transferred to another owner, that presumably would mean anyone trying to reach the original owner by DSC radio, would still be "dialing" the same MMSI number, and reaching the new owner instead, correct?

Just asking, because folks tend not to update directories, so it could become a nuisance matter. "Dave's not here man." and all that fine stuff.

That is what it would mean. Still, until and unless individual DSC calls become the norm rather than exception I find it hard to believe this would be a problem. Reprogramming DSC radios is definitely a problem.

StarWatcher · 30-07-2014, 15:35

jcapo -
"Care to share which nets?"

Not yet. There's still much to consider. Thanks.

hellosailor · 30-07-2014, 17:06

I don't see it as a problem now or yet, either. Just looking ahead to possible consequences, and considering that with DSC now becoming common rather than rare. There are so many gateways between different media and services...I wouldn't be surprised to see a gateway that pushes text messages from the web to DSC radios, or something along those lines. The same way that we have AIS maps on cell phones...Someone could easily put together an app that said "Oh, you buddy is in town, here he is on AIS...and now you can SMS him via DSC"

This is something like someone saying "Hey, why don't we put an extra digit on the MMSI number, you know, in case they become so cheap that sometime in the future people have PORTABLE radios and MORE THAN ONE RADIO PER BOAT?"

Folks would be happier now, if someone had raised the odd point then.

I suppose an extra digit could solve both problems. A user-modifiable extra digit, perhaps, in future coding?

Auspicious · 31-07-2014, 04:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellosailor

There are so many gateways between different media and services...I wouldn't be surprised to see a gateway that pushes text messages from the web to DSC radios, or something along those lines. The same way that we have AIS maps on cell phones...Someone could easily put together an app that said "Oh, you buddy is in town, here he is on AIS...and now you can SMS him via DSC"

The USCG and FCC are exploring the prospects of a message service like SMS over DSC. It won't be soon.

To my knowledge there is no anticipation of a mesh network or other forwarding so the system will be limited, as DSC is today, to the radio horizon. I don't believe that a web interface is anticipated although folks like Marinetraffic might try something. Since many (most?) Marinetraffic receive sites are third party take-up of a web interface is likely to be very slow if it happens at all.

StarWatcher · 31-07-2014, 10:51

Restricted Radiotelephone Operators Permit & Station Licenses
are both restricted to certain marine frequencies?

What of using other marine frequencies outside of those authorized?
Both are restricted to one base location (lat/lon)? ie not from a car

Unsure if this applies to same guy. Just want to know the rules incase.

Thanks

Auspicious · 31-07-2014, 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarWatcher

Restricted Radiotelephone Operators Permit & Station Licenses are both restricted to certain marine frequencies?

All marine frequencies are authorized.

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarWatcher

What of using other marine frequencies outside of those authorized?
Both are restricted to one base location (lat/lon)? ie not from a car

Definitely not from a car, and not from any shore facility without a different private coast license from the FCC. Marine licenses are for boats, ships, and other floating facilities.

hellosailor · 31-07-2014, 11:52

Auspicious-
I think the web has shown us that intent and logic are both often meaningless once something gets into the wild. SMS messaging went nowhere, till the kids embraced it. And who would have thought, it would be roughly 5000x more profitable than voice traffic for the "telephone" companies? Then there's Twitter, which I still don't understand. Group messaging to SMS, but without the fancy name that's still a rare bird as opposed to a hundred million tweets.

A lot of mash-ups are possible, with or without the FCC and USCG being involved. Suppose I write an app (I promise, not me!) that reads the AIS message bases, as existing apps do. And it asks you "Look for what vessel?" and then if it finds that vessel (which is becoming globally possible) it offers to pass traffic to some local DSC station in that area? Voila, global DSC messaging and the only thing it needs are participating "local" DSC transmitters with internet access. Anyone with a boat that has cellular data and a DSC radio on it would be able to become a local hub.

Is that likely to happen? Don't ask me, I missed the boat with Internet porn and thought Google would only be one more search engine flash in the pan. And thought DEC built better PCs than IBM.(G)

Just saying, this is very definitely NOT entirely under FCC or USCG control, and they need to consider that. Instead of conferencing with each other, they need to reach out to the user base, and the potential user base, and ask "Is this anything that interests you? Is there stuff you could do with this?"

Yeah, not in line with what two administrative agencies are used to doing, is it?(G)

Auspicious · 31-07-2014, 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Suppose I write an app (I promise, not me!) that reads the AIS message bases, as existing apps do.

No problem either technically or administratively.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellosailor

And it asks you "Look for what vessel?" and then if it finds that vessel (which is becoming globally possible) it offers to pass traffic to some local DSC station in that area?

Most of the DSC signal collection stations (like those that feed Marinetraffic) are small (cheap) VHF receivers. There is no explicit latency requirement to be a Marinetraffic feed. I've seen data as much as 20 minutes old. So 1. you have "local DSC stations" that can't transmit and 2. you have very long delays inherent in the system. A possible 3. is that it isn't clear to me that the source of data is carried in the Marinetraffic database - certainly it isn't available in the API.

Who will pick up the costs of overwhelmingly volunteer "local DSC stations" to replace their receivers with transceivers? Who will pick up the costs of moving from 'when you get around to it' to near-real-time data transfer?

I've been wrong before. In fact I'm good at it. I missed the Internet porn boat also. Heck I thought Beta would beat VHS. *grin*

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Anyone with a boat that has cellular data and a DSC radio on it would be able to become a local hub.

Now you are talking a different kettle of fish. First the technology simply doesn't support a mesh network. Start with limits of 1200 bps. Add existing infrastructure that can't even conceive of anything other than point-to-point connections. The technical and economic issues are big. Add to that the legal responsibility for messages received and resent by members of a mesh (follow the APRS, WL2K, and other third party communications travails in the ham radio community).

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellosailor

And thought DEC built better PCs than IBM.(G)

I was a VAX guy before transitioning to Dell (back in PC's Limited days) and ultimately back to IBM before they spun off Lenovo. *grin*

Auspicious · 31-07-2014, 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbauman

Having just gone through this when I purchased my boat, perhaps I can clarify this process. I had the previous owner cancel the ship's station license which released the MMSI. When I then applied for the new ship's station license in my name, I noted that the MMSI had already been assigned and filled it in. The new license was issued with the current MMSI instead of getting a new one assigned. So no need to change the MMSI's in the radios.

The FCC representative to the USCG GMDSS Task Force dialed in to the meeting and it wasn't appropriate to digress during the meeting. I will follow up by e-mail. I did talk to a couple of CG folks who agreed that it was a great idea and hoped that if that is policy it would be better documented.

transmitterdan · 31-07-2014, 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbauman

Having just gone through this when I purchased my boat, perhaps I can clarify this process. I had the previous owner cancel the ship's station license which released the MMSI. When I then applied for the new ship's station license in my name, I noted that the MMSI had already been assigned and filled it in. The new license was issued with the current MMSI instead of getting a new one assigned. So no need to change the MMSI's in the radios.

Are you absolutely sure that the "released" MMSI number is in the SAR database with all your details? I'm not convinced that just because the FCC accepted the MMSI number already assigned means all your personal details would be updated in the SAR database. I am not sure how you validate the database but if I were you I would find out how and check every data item. Do they have your land based contact info right or do they still have the previous owner's data in there?

hellosailor · 31-07-2014, 18:34

Dan-
if the SARSAT registration center wasn't the place that could check it, I'd bet they would know the best way to check it.

SARSAT Beacon Registration
NOAA/SARSAT
NSOF, E/SP3
4231 Suitland Road
Suitland MD 20746
Beacon.Registration@noaa.gov
Tel: 301-817-4515
Tel: 1-888-212-SAVE (7283)
Fax: 301-817-4565
www.beaconregistration.noaa.gov

And they're real helpful on the phone.

Auspicious · 01-08-2014, 05:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

Are you absolutely sure that the "released" MMSI number is in the SAR database with all your details?

You can check yourself: Particulars of Ship stations

Emergency contact information is not released to protect privacy. If they have everything else correct that should be right also. You can check the emergency contact data on the FCC ULS using your FRN and password.

The ITU database is updated from USCG and FCC daily.

Broken-Sailor · 09-08-2014, 16:32

The Restricted Radiotelephone Operators Permit is not just for use on marine radios. I have had one since 1985, though I am not sure where it is at the moment, but I had to have one for when I was working with one of the C.A.P. radio training officers training cadets the proper radio operation on an aircraft and on the ground.

rbauman · 09-08-2014, 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

Are you absolutely sure that the "released" MMSI number is in the SAR database with all your details? I'm not convinced that just because the FCC accepted the MMSI number already assigned means all your personal details would be updated in the SAR database. I am not sure how you validate the database but if I were you I would find out how and check every data item. Do they have your land based contact info right or do they still have the previous owner's data in there?

The MMSI number is not used by the SAR folks, but the EPIRB Identification Code is. The same technique used to release the MMSI with the FCC has to be done using the EPIRB ID with the NOAA SAR folks. The previous owner logs into the NOAA SAR site with the EPIRB code and his password and updates the EPIRB status. Then the new owner can register the same EPIRB Id code as a new registration.

The information is easily validated on the FCC and NOAA websites. For the FCC site you can search by call sign, FRN or name. For NOAA SAR, you need the EPRIB ID and your password.