Flag of Convenience

[twistedtree]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Also no sales tax on used boats in Rhode Island. As far as I can find out, it's the only state on the east coast without sales tax.

New Hampshire has no sales tax on anything.

[Nicholson58]

as a non US citizen you cannot be US CG documented. This is not what the OP asked.

The LLC in Delaware is a method to avoid US state transfer/sales taxes. Most states have found ways to catch up to you anyway. IF you intend to remove it from the US, you should be able to avoid this anyway. I believe you can register/document in the BVI and still avoid a lot of taxes and enjoy BVI documentation and flag without EU VAT.

BVI documentation is also used by US citizens with LLC to avoid US state taxes. Some states have property and transfer taxes that are legally avoided in this way.

You had best deal with a real lawyer though instead of us wanabees.

[goboatingnow]

Lets be very clear. If you intend to bring a yacht to the UK under IPR and are presumably using the simplified authorisation , I would urge you to be very careful that you are engaged in genuine " processing " of the vessel.

Equally be aware that the simplified authorisation is not designed for a person habitually engaged in such import and export. Specific IP authorisation is usually requested in that case

To avoid doubt , I would strongly advise you to apply for and be granted local or specific authorisation to engage in IP and hence benefit from IPR and the suspension of VAT.

Slapping antifoul on it will not be so regarded.

Tread carefully here. If there is a genuine intention to engage in " processing " of the goods then the procedures can be applied

Again I would strongly recommend you seek specific local authorisation to place the vessel in IPR suspension.

Dave

[clifford sloan]

My vessel is listed as owned by Stargazer Charters, Inc., a Delaware Corp. It is registered in Delaware. It is a 36 ft. Westerly Corsair. Further details on request.
All the best,
Clif

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by clifford sloan

My vessel is listed as owned by Stargazer Charters, Inc., a Delaware Corp. It is registered in Delaware. It is a 36 ft. Westerly Corsair. Further details on request.
All the best,
Clif

Well don't leave us hangin'. Are you a US citizen? And where is the boat.

[Captain Ludd]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Lets be very clear. If you intend to bring a yacht to the UK under IPR and are presumably using the simplified authorisation , I would urge you to be very careful that you are engaged in genuine " processing " of the vessel.

Equally be aware that the simplified authorisation is not designed for a person habitually engaged in such import and export. Specific IP authorisation is usually requested in that case

To avoid doubt , I would strongly advise you to apply for and be granted local or specific authorisation to engage in IP and hence benefit from IPR and the suspension of VAT.

Slapping antifoul on it will not be so regarded.

Tread carefully here. If there is a genuine intention to engage in " processing " of the goods then the procedures can be applied

Again I would strongly recommend you seek specific local authorisation to place the vessel in IPR suspension.

Dave

Thanks, Easiest of course is to find a tax paid vessel and then there are no issues and there are one or two around that are priced about the same as a no vat paid vessel.
The likelihood is that I won't find a suitable boat in the EU anyway but it pays to ask the questions. I would seek something in writing if it ever got that far, as you suggest.

[Captain Ludd]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

Well don't leave us hangin'. Are you a US citizen? And where is the boat.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Captain Ludd

Thanks, Easiest of course is to find a tax paid vessel and then there are no issues and there are one or two around that are priced about the same as a no vat paid vessel.
The likelihood is that I won't find a suitable boat in the EU anyway but it pays to ask the questions. I would seek something in writing if it ever got that far, as you suggest.

Whilst GBN is also only a provider of internet advice and therefore should not be taken as gospel.......nonetheless I would take anything he says seriously, and for me that would be up to the point of having paid for professional advice - from someone who had decent pii cover, so I can sue if the advice was wrong . Iirc gbn has messed around with vat for business reasons, including on boats......not just has a knowledge of internet links.

Personally, if intending to use a boat in the eu for extended periods I would be looking for one with vat already paid on it .....if an eu resident. Flagged in home eu country. Kiss always has advantages when dealing with officialdom.

[clifford sloan]

Yes, born and bred. The vessel is in Florida.

[Captain Ludd]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Whilst GBN is also only a provider of internet advice and therefore should not be taken as gospel.......nonetheless I would take anything he says seriously, and for me that would be up to the point of having paid for professional advice - from someone who had decent pii cover, so I can sue if the advice was wrong . Iirc gbn has messed around with vat for business reasons, including on boats......not just has a knowledge of internet links.

Personally, if intending to use a boat in the eu for extended periods I would be looking for one with vat already paid on it .....if an eu resident. Flagged in home eu country. Kiss always has advantages when dealing with officialdom.

Hi David
As I have said before (I think) I have no intention of staying long term in the EU wherever the boat comes from. I'm just really trying to find out how long I have got if I bought one in the Med. At first I thought it was 18 months but that only applies to non EU citizens. It would seem that it is now 6 months if I am coming in for any repairs or refurbs. If the time comes I will make sure I have that in writing from the revenue, of course dealing with the UK revenue is one thing but I'm not sure I would be confident of explaining it to a Portugese official.

Best would be (as you say) to buy one already vat paid or buy something in the Caribbean and do any re-fitting there and don't come to the EU with it.

[BandB]

By far the simplest thing is to find the boat you want and take it where you want and pay whatever the required taxes are.

Now to vary slightly and perhaps save money, determine what you want to do in the above, then engage a maritime attorney and let him tell you the implications and if some small variation in plans can save you significant money.

[Captain Ludd]

Originally Posted by BandB

By far the simplest thing is to find the boat you want and take it where you want and pay whatever the required taxes are.

Now to vary slightly and perhaps save money, determine what you want to do in the above, then engage a maritime attorney and let him tell you the implications and if some small variation in plans can save you significant money.

Thanks - I totally agree.

I'm a believer in self-help, hence wishing to do the leg work myself.
I am much cheaper than my lawyer !!
I have found some lawyers to be great with the detail, but unimaginative. :-)

[Alenka]

Originally Posted by Captain Ludd

Thanks but that is not correct, I have spoken to customs & excise about this at great length now.
Check 5.6.
If the intention is for an EU citizen to bring the (say US flagged) boat in for repairs and then take it out again, it can come in for 6 mths before it will have to leave (unless there is mitigation).

HM Revenue & Customs

The thing I didn't want to ask was how long before it can come back in.
I believe it is immediately if I can prove I left EU waters.

Do not rely on speaking to HM Customs & Excise on the telephone. I also spoke to them and was told the biggest load of tosh I have ever heard, much of which was a direct contridiction to information published on their own web site. Ask for an appointment to visit them! You will find out this is not possible! Funny old thing that!!

Dave is not always right, but he's not always wrong!!!

If you want to sleep sound in your bunk at night without the fear of your boat being impounded; And your sailing, might at some point in the future, include the EU then buy a boat that is VAT paid.

When Croatia joined the EU they offered all the boats under their flag a chance to pay a peppercorn VAT bill. That country always offered some 'intrestingly' priced boats... Those self same boats are now EU VAT paid!

A few years ago I was offered a brand new boat with ever bell and whistle included for free provided it was first used to do the rounds of the European boat shows. It was a big stretch to buy it but, in the end, the + VAT was a killer. I looked down every avenue to find a loop hole without success.

In Europe it is still a buyers market. But for how long? We have undergone a long period of time with very few new boats being sold - which means in a few years time second hand boats of 'low mileage' are going to be very rare. Rare = higher asking price.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by Captain Ludd

Thanks - I totally agree.

I'm a believer in self-help, hence wishing to do the leg work myself.
I am much cheaper than my lawyer !!
I have found some lawyers to be great with the detail, but unimaginative. :-)

Becoming knowledgeable oneself is good.

I might argue with the point of being cheaper than your lawyer. The mistake you might make in a case like this could be many many times the cost of an attorney. For a maritime attorney this isn't a huge costly situation as it's an area they deal with all the time.

I don't want my lawyer to be too imaginative. Those with imaginative lawyers and accountants often find themselves in situations they never imagined with fines, taxes, penalties and other problems. I want mine to know all the options that legitimately keep me out of trouble, but not to try skirting the law or finding loopholes against the intent of the law. Especially taxing authorities can come back on you in those situations. There's a tax rule that is actually a part of law in most countries and that is, "If a transaction is designed for no purpose other than to avoid a tax then it will generally be deemed taxable." Think Enron and Arthur Andersen. Ernst and Young clients had another shelter denied.

[Captain Ludd]

Let me state for the record that I am not looking to commit fraud, skirt the law or anything else of a similar nature. I am trying to educate myself and avoid a possible costly mistake.
I feel like a man who asks the speed limit on two roads to see what the best route between two towns is and folks want to tell him not to drive dangerously because it's against the law.