Florida is P*ssing Me Off

[Just a Tinch]

Originally Posted by David M

You tax whatever you want less of. The State of Florida has effectively said it wants fewer boat sales. That will only serve to hurt the people in the yacht sales business and probably won't increase the revenue into the coffers all that much.

Actually, your statement is a bit off base. In FL we have no state income tax, we have no property taxes on personal property, we have no property taxes on vehicles. On vehicles we pay only an annual registration fee.... and its probably one of the lower ones on the entire US. Given all the foregoing, the sales taxes collected are not all that bad. Food (store bought) and prescription medicines are not taxed. Labor for repairs, etc is not taxed, unless parts or equipment is on the same invoice. The "additional" tax on the $5000.00 is usually only 1% with a max of $50.00.

There are over 162,000 jobs in FL that revolve directly around the "boating" industry/community. FL values the revenue that is injected into the economy as a whole.

The sales taxes that are collected....even when applied to non-residents, is fair, and serves to prevent tax fraud. For instance, if you are a CA resident and purchased a boat in FL, through a broker in CA....and had him do all the paperwork, and showed where CA Sales taxes were collected on behalf of the state...in your case...the 8.50% for San Francisco.....the State of Florida would not collect a penny from you.....unless you intended to leave the boat in FL for more than 90 days, in which event you would have to purchase a "sojourner's permit" that would allow the vessel to remain for a year. It would cost you about $120.00.

Florida is not the "voracious" culprit that some think it is. Actually, all things considered....its a rather "benign" place overall....especially where "taxes" are concerned.

[AnchorageGuy]

It is amazing to me how each time we see a post about Floriduh the folks that live there jump to defend the states policies. Most concerns posted are not issues if the poster is a Floriduh resident, but how the state treats non residents that are there to add to their economy and NOT treated like other tourists coming to enjoy the state. Why is not all drivers required to purchase a sojourners pass for all vehicles in the state for more than 30 days? Why are you not required to move your car if it is parked in the same spot for more than 24 hours? Why do those other than Floriduh residents have a problem with these kinds of issues?

[Jonesee]

Chuck, JustaTinch did a great job of explaining our tax and revenue structure. I have lived all over the US and I find Florida's the best I have seen. Please try NY or anywhere in the NE. Try the west coast, Heck, try Arkansas, I've lived in all of them and more. Your statement about "Floriduh" I found offensive. Please just stay out then. That is how you can handle it best if you don't agree. Or better yet, tell us what the sales tax, personal property tax, state wage tax, homestead exemption is like in your home state. Unless your home state is Nevada or one of the high plains states I will make a side wager that Florida's is lower when all revenue streams are taken into consideration. I will crunch the numbers and post them here for everyone to judge. What say you???

[hellosailor]

Jonesee, in many ways it is still "FloriDUH?" down there. The schools were generating illiterates, wihle the library systems in the same counties (on the Gold Coast) were outstanding--to serve the snowbirds. Mass transit is a nightmare no one wants to fix. The roads are free-fire kill zones, populated with fly-by-night contractors carrying unsecured loads and workers in pickup backs, manic kids and elders who have no focus or peripheral vision or reaction times.

What, you missed the national news last year, when a 92-year old man was stopped at a toll booth (he was going to pay and keep going) and asked what that other man was doing INMPALED IN HIS PASSENGER SIDE WINDSHIELD? Apparently the man ran him down and continued driving down the parkway, never noticing the body on his dashboard.

And this year, the Democratic National party just disenfranchised all of Floridas democrats in the primary. That's right, all Florida DP votes are being thrown out of the national primary because Florida dared to move up their date without permission.

There is a LOT that doesn't make sense in Florida, especially SE Florida, and if you've never read Dave Barry or Charles Hiaasen, you'd never believe it. If you have read them and haven't spent time there--you'd say they write farce, it can't possibly be. Except, it is.

Maybe it was a nice place 50 years ago, but it really is an odd place now. I asked if we could get a front license plate, and was told that's not even available if you want to pay for it. Rear plates only. I said yeah, but it someone runs me down, the front plate is the only one I'm going to get a chance to read, isn't it? And the nice lady just looked at me and said "Gee, I guess they never though about that."

In many ways, it is one of our oddest states. And the taxes? Got a surprise for you, every state recovers taxes one way or another, some of Floridas sales taxes are higher than NYCs.

[Tropic Cat]

Florida -- No State income tax and Constitutionally limited property tax. And ... some of the best weather and sailing in the USA

[TaoJones]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

<snip>

There is a LOT that doesn't make sense in Florida, especially SE Florida, and if you've never read Dave Barry or Charles Hiaasen, you'd never believe it. If you have read them and haven't spent time there--you'd say they write farce, it can't possibly be. Except, it is.

<snip>

I don't mean to quibble, hellosailor, but it's Carl Hiasen, one of the funniest, most gifted of the current American writers. And you're quite correct - what he writes is based on observed lunacy that's either too funny to be real, or too real to be funny.

TaoJones

[hellosailor]

Florida Taxes:

FLORIDA
Sales Taxes
State Sales Tax: 6% (food, prescription and non-prescription drugs exempt). There are additional county sales taxes which could make the combined rate as high as 9.5%.
Gasoline Tax: 32.6 cents/gallon
Diesel Fuel Tax: * 28.5 cents/gallon
(Local taxes for gasoline vary from 5.5 cents to 17 cents, plus there is a 2.07% gasoline pollution tax.)
Cigarette Tax: 33.9 cents/pack of 20
Personal Income Taxes
No state income tax
Retirement Income: Not taxed. Starting in 2007, individuals, married couples, personal representatives of estates, and businesses are no longer required to file an annual intangible personal property tax return reporting their stocks, bonds, mutual funds, money market funds, shares of business trusts, and unsecured notes. For details, click here.

Property Taxes
All property is taxable at 100% of its just valuation. In certain counties and cities homeowners 65 and over can receive a homestead exemption from property tax of $25,000 if their household income, as defined by the federal tax code, is at or below $26,763 (single) or $30,046 (couples) per year (2007 figures). The income limitation is adjusted each year based on the cost of living index. In many instances the definition of household income excludes Social Security. Permanent residents may also be entitled to a homestead exemption regardless of age. Residents 65 and older are entitled to both exemptions ($50,000). The senior citizen's homestead exemption applies only to tax millage levied by the county or city, and does not apply to millage of school districts or other taxing authorities. The homestead exemption for all residents applies to all property taxes, not just city and county taxes. Annual increases in the assessment of homestead property are limited to 3% of the prior year's assessed value, or if lower, the percentage change in the Consumer Price Index for the prior, as long as there was no change in ownership. A 2006 law provides a property tax discount on homestead property owned by eligible veterans. To be eligible, a veteran must have an honorable discharge from military service, be at least 65 years old, be partially disabled with a permanent service connected disability all or a portion of which must be combat-related, and must have been a Florida resident at the time of entering military service. This discount is in addition to any other exemptions veterans now receive.
A 2007 law allows local governments to give those age 65 and above - with low incomes - an increased homestead exemption. Cities and counties have the option of doubling an existing homestead exemption on primary owner-occupied homes from $25,000 to $50,000. To qualify, taxpayers must have an annual income of $20,000 or less.
For more details on property taxes, click here, then find the link for the county property appraiser for the county in question. For more information on Florida property tax exemptions, click here.
There have been, recent and bitter arguments about changes in Floridas real estate rates and exemptions, the situation is likely to change. And if typical federal oversight requres 100% appraisal for everyone--taxes might go out for a lot of the 'grandfathered' ones.

Inheritance and Estate Taxes
There is no inheritance tax and only a limited estate tax.
To review information for new residents, click here.
For general information on Florida taxes, visit the Florida Department of Revenue site or call 800-352-3671.
* Includes local county taxes

Now of course that is all well and good for personal taxes, but that still ignores business taxes. And a low tax rate that doesn't pay for public transportation. And the expectable and cometimes uninsurable storm damages to come as the seas come up inland to US1 on the east coast in the next 50 years. Florida is heaven--if you are rich enough. It is also a state where more people moved OUT than IN last year because so many issues have reached a point where folks can't make enough to live.

[Tropic Cat]

Well, It sounds like we can count on you not relocating here.

I can live with that.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

... Florida is heaven--if you are rich enough. It is also a state where more people moved OUT than IN last year because so many issues have reached a point where folks can't make enough to live.

Not according to the University of Florida's estimates, which indicate that, while population growth in Florida has slowed down, it is still moving at a rapid pace.
The University of Florida’s yearly estimate shows population growth from 2006 to 2007 dropped more than 20% from the previous year. More than 330,000 new residents moved to Florida in the past year; about 100,000 less than the year before.
Goto:
Study: Florida population growth slows - Orlando Business Journal:

Populations grow or shrink as a result of shifts in three demographic variables: fertility, migration, and mortality. Changes in population size are dependent on net migration (people moving into the state minus people moving out of it - both domestic migration & international immigration), and natural factors (births minus deaths).
The U.S. Census Bureau estimated that in July 2006, Florida’s population had increased by an annual average of about 334,455 residents since 2000 (to 18,089,888 residents). Over that period net international migration (more immigrants arriving than leaving) was adding about 101,935 persons each year.
During the same period there was an annual average population gain of about 193,895 residents from net domestic migration (more native-born residents arriving than leaving).
Primary Reasons for Population Change in Florida:
Natural Increase: 12.8%
Net Migration: 87.2%

People QuickFacts ~ Florida (USA):
Population, 2006 ~ 18,089,888 (299,398,484)
Population, percent change, April 1, 2000 to July 1, 2006 ~ +13.2% (+6.4%)
Population, 2000 ~ 15,982,378 (281,421,906)
Population Growth Rate 1990-2000 - 23.5%
Florida’s population is projected to double to 36 million by 2060.

Goto US Census Bureau:
Florida QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

If current trends continue, the state’s population will increase by 5.5 million by 2025 and will have doubled by 2050, when its population could surpass 32 million – or twice the 15,982,378 counted in the 2000 census. (That does not include the close to one million “snowbirds” who reside in the state every winter).

[Pura Vida]

Gee Gord, you're muddying the water with facts.

There appears to be emerging a common consensus that Florida is the problem, but I disagree. First and formost Florida is set up for the residents, not the transients visiting there. It is also pretty liberal when it comes to handling outside boaters as the Sojourners permit proves. Sure there may be anecdotal example where some official was a pain, but overall they seem to be working with the boating community. (Here is where people can complain about anchoring.)

I really suspect that Florida, after deciding to fund via sales and property taxes, is not singling out boaters. They do have a hotel tax which applies to most of the other vacationers in the state. When you get right down to it, they are most likely targeting for taxation people like my uncle's business partner who is a resident of Illinois and keeps a 150 foot motor yacht in Florida.

I think that the arguments against Florida are a little bit single sided in perspective. Sure, most southern cruisers need to pass through Florida waters to get into the Bahamas but they can do that without paying property/sales taxes. If it takes someone a year to pass through the state then they are not cruisers but residents. Finally, it is an oversimplification to claim that the social ills of a state are driven by the tax code. Society is far more complex than that.

This is similar to "the Caribbean is a scarry place" posts. If you don't like Florida, why spend any more time there than you have to?

[Joli]

I would love to be in Florida right now. 13 degrees this morning and yesterday was windy enough to blow train cars off the tracks and into the bay. But hey things are looking up, it's going to warm up to 25 and snow 8 inches.

Hey hunny, why do we live here again?

[Pblais]

Gee Gord, you're muddying the water with facts.

We have been meaning to talk to hinm about that.

If you don't like Florida, why spend any more time there than you have to?

That's always been my approach.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Joli

I would love to be in Florida right now. 13 degrees this morning and yesterday was windy enough to blow train cars off the tracks and into the bay. But hey things are looking up, it's going to warm up to 25 and snow 8 inches.
Hey hunny, why do we live here again?

Thirteen degrees is near-tropical. we're at -13 deg. F, with a -49 deg F windchill.

[AnchorageGuy]

Originally Posted by Jonesee

Chuck, JustaTinch did a great job of explaining our tax and revenue structure. I have lived all over the US and I find Florida's the best I have seen. Please try NY or anywhere in the NE. Try the west coast, Heck, try Arkansas, I've lived in all of them and more. Your statement about "Floriduh" I found offensive. Please just stay out then. That is how you can handle it best if you don't agree. Or better yet, tell us what the sales tax, personal property tax, state wage tax, homestead exemption is like in your home state. Unless your home state is Nevada or one of the high plains states I will make a side wager that Florida's is lower when all revenue streams are taken into consideration. I will crunch the numbers and post them here for everyone to judge. What say you???

Sorry you took offense but your post just proves my point and you did not address my issues with charging tourists that come in by auto and RV the same as those that come in by boat.

[ssullivan]

Sorry guys... I didn't mean to start an anti-Florida thread. I have lived there and wasn't impressed, but that's just because I didn't like the fact that there was no nature (in Ft Lauderdale).

One concern I have is that through my scouring of the internet about the boat I'm looking at buying down there, I found that the current owner was recently boarded by the sherrif and got a $250 fine for not being registered/sojourned in FL. He has a FL drivers license and I guess they are assuming he lives there because of that, even though his real address and the boat's registration and taxation is in another state.

(Hi current owner - don't get upset - I do a lot of research before buying something. )


QUESTION: Since the boat itself (with out of state reg and hailing port) is now in the database, are they going to be looking out for me?

Will this affect my 90 days to get out of dodge because I'll pop up as having been there longer (since there was an incident with the boat before I bought it)?

No offense to FL, but what a hassle. I think it's the level of boarding and aquagestapos FL has that give it such a bad rep. There are laws on the books, and then there are police enforcing them. FL is a police state (like NY), but it seems FL police don't have anything important to do aside from stopping boats.


To the poster who said all states in the NE have high taxes, you obviously haven't visited my home state - the Granite State.