Foreigner Buying a Sailboat

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by svlamorocha

I agree with many things you wrote but not the bit about permanent residents being able to "document" a boat with USCG. When I did the research a few years ago the answer was that only citizens could do it.



C

You are correct...

WHAT ARE THE REQUIREMENTS FOR DOCUMENTATION?
The basic requirements for documentation are to demonstrate ownership of the vessel, U.S. citizenship, and eligibility for the endorsement sought.

[bvimatelot]

Well - an interesting thread! I have to admit I didnt read absolutely every line....

For interest, I've just delivered an Un-Flagged, Un-registered, Un-named brand new Lagoon 380 (Hull 730) from France to New York with stops in Portugal, Canaries and Bermuda.

Some places called for a little bit of head-scratching by the local authorities but really, no problems at all. I was a bit leery of my arrival in the US as I do not hold a B1/B2 (used to - but its expired). My entry was on the fact that I had entered the States on a scheduled carrier within the last 90 days: provided I got out of the States before that 90 day period expired, I was OK. Apart from 100 dollar double taxi ride from Liberty Landing to Customs in New York, everyone was charmiong and helpful.

Hey ho - flying to Cancun this afternoon to take a Lagoon 440 through the canal and up to Acapulco........ Tony

[adgarcia2010]

Thanks Gentlemen !!!

Let me summarize what I understood about your comments and links you adviced

I will fully comply with the law if:

-I enter the US with B1/B2 visa

-I buy a sailboat in Fl (40-50 k) and get a correct bill of sale

-I don't register the boat in any state or USCG

-I don't pay any tax (for example 6% FL taxes)

-I leave FL (and US) before 90 days

-I sail in the Carib for 1 or 2 years and when authorities ask for documentation I show the bill of sale

-After that. I can leave the boat on sale in one Caribbean dealer (for example BVI)

-I fly back to Brazil

Am I wrong?

[svlamorocha]

Originally Posted by adgarcia2010

Thanks Gentlemen !!!

Let me summarize what I understood about your comments and links you adviced

I will fully comply with the law if:

-I enter the US with B1/B2 visa

-I buy a sailboat in Fl (40-50 k) and get a correct bill of sale

-I don't register the boat in any state or USCG

-I don't pay any tax (for example 6% FL taxes)

-I leave FL (and US) before 90 days

-I sail in the Carib for 1 or 2 years and when authorities ask for documentation I show the bill of sale

-After that. I can leave the boat on sale in one Caribbean dealer (for example BVI)

-I fly back to Brazil

Am I wrong?

Two points:

- Bill of sale is not good enough for cruising around. You do need to register the boat somewhere, otherwise you will get in trouble when clearing in as a cruiser. Bvimatelot´s experience is not directly applicable to you because he did not enter any countries to cruise around as a tourist, he was a professional "transporting" a new boat and there is different paperwork for that situation. You will need to clear into countries in a way that lets you stay there for a while without triggering import duty, for which the boat needs some registration from elsewhere. Once again, state reg will do in many places even though it it not ideal. If you want to get Florida state reg you will need to pay tax as if you were to stay beyond 90 days. If you want to avoid paying that you may be able to state-register the boat in Delaware in your name. This is what many Brazilians and Argentines do with the boats made outside Mercosul they keep in Punta del Este; look for the ones with stickers that say "DL" and then a number.

- You will not find a "dealer" that will buy the boat form you and then resell it. You will find "brokers" that will act as agents to help you sell it, but the boat will still be yours until it is sold to someone else. MAke sur eyou know how long it takes to sell a boat and how much is the monthly storage cost going to be.

One question : What sort of boat are you looking at? That may drive the decision as to best place to buy it...

[su2014]

Originally Posted by bvimatelot

Well - an interesting thread! I have to admit I didnt read absolutely every line....

For interest, I've just delivered an Un-Flagged, Un-registered, Un-named brand new Lagoon 380 (Hull 730) from France to New York with stops in Portugal, Canaries and Bermuda.

Some places called for a little bit of head-scratching by the local authorities but really, no problems at all. I was a bit leery of my arrival in the US as I do not hold a B1/B2 (used to - but its expired). My entry was on the fact that I had entered the States on a scheduled carrier within the last 90 days: provided I got out of the States before that 90 day period expired, I was OK. Apart from 100 dollar double taxi ride from Liberty Landing to Customs in New York, everyone was charmiong and helpful.

Hey ho - flying to Cancun this afternoon to take a Lagoon 440 through the canal and up to Acapulco........ Tony

tony,sounds like fun being a cat-wrangler on new boats with working A/C as a move from cancun to acapulco must be a hot one this time of year. In answer to OPs most recent post about selling in BVI later without paying sales tax in FLA or BVI i would advice checking BVI tax laws as they could also have a tax-free period of only 90 days.i seem to recall that Grenada is 1 year without incurring Grenada tax which can be avoided by "stamping out to a different country and then just returning later". avoiding sales tax and or VAT type taxes can be a challenge as laws can can and the taxman does walk docks in some USA states and also countries. It can often take longer than one year to sell your boat. goodluck with your plan.I strongly advice doing your own due diligence as my advice is dated.JMHO

[skipmac]

Hi AD

On these questions, yes to some, some the answer depends on how you deal with another question.

Originally Posted by adgarcia2010

I will fully comply with the law if:

-I enter the US with B1/B2 visa

Cannot comment about this. No expertise on US visas at all. Sorry.

-I buy a sailboat in Fl (40-50 k) and get a correct bill of sale

Kind of yes. To be certain you are the complete legal owner you need to make sure the seller has a clear title. That is he is the full, complete owner and there are no bank loans or liens against the boat (which could be a loan or an unpaid bill to a mechanic or at the marina). USCG documentation, if verified with the USCG shows clear ownership but may not show any liens against the boat for unpaid marina or mechanics bills. If the boat is not documented then the seller should have a legal state title paper for the boat which in some states the seller will sign on the back and that will be the bill of sale and the title of ownership.

To be really safe on this it might be worthwhile to pay one of the companies that will do a title search for you.


-I don't register the boat in any state or USCG

You cannot register with the USCG unless you are a US citizen or have a US corporation. If you want, you can register the boat with any east coast state I know of. Totally legal to state register, cheap and easy.

-I don't pay any tax (for example 6% FL taxes)

Legal as long as you comply with FL (or other state) regulations. In Florida one way to comply is the next question.

-I leave FL (and US) before 90 days

If you buy a boat in Florida AND do not register the boat in Florida AND you leave the Florida (not necessary to leave the US, just leave the state so crossing the border to Georgia is OK) then you as a non citizen and non resident of Florida are completely free from paying Florida 6% sales tax.

There will be the same or very similar rules in most (not all) states.


-I sail in the Carib for 1 or 2 years and when authorities ask for documentation I show the bill of sale

Not so sure about this. You may get away with this for a while but after a year or so you might get some questions about why you have not registered the boat with some country. This I think you need to get a second opinion.

-After that. I can leave the boat on sale in one Caribbean dealer (for example BVI)

As long as you are legal in all the above. In fact a dealer in the BVI might not care if you owe a tax in the US if the boat is to be sold in the BVI.


-I fly back to Brazil

Make sure you leave the boat with a reliable person if not yet sold.

Am I wrong?

[Reiziger]

For people from Brazil OP has a point. I am a dutchman living in Brazil with permanent status, I am not registrated anymore in The Netherlands. I face the same problem, I want to buy a boat in the US but how to registrate the boat? In Brazil is impossible because of the import legislation. As a EU Passport holder I am thinking to register on the Channel Islands but then the Tonnage Survey gives a headache How to easy register a boat?

[sailpower]

Originally Posted by adgarcia2010

Thanks Gentlemen !!!

Let me summarize what I understood about your comments and links you adviced

I will fully comply with the law if:

-I enter the US with B1/B2 visa

-I buy a sailboat in Fl (40-50 k) and get a correct bill of sale

-I don't register the boat in any state or USCG

-I don't pay any tax (for example 6% FL taxes)

-I leave FL (and US) before 90 days

-I sail in the Carib for 1 or 2 years and when authorities ask for documentation I show the bill of sale

-After that. I can leave the boat on sale in one Caribbean dealer (for example BVI)

-I fly back to Brazil

Am I wrong?

Why not simply hire a marine documentation agent who can advise you of the various available scenarios and then do the paperwork for the one that you choose?

This company in Fort Lauderdale is very good.

Docs - Yacht Direct

FL sales tax information http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/forms/current/gt800006.pdf

[dohenyboy]

So much misinformation.
To register the boat in Delaware you do not have to use a corporation. Delaware does not care if you are from Mars. They just want an address to send your registration card to. PM me if you want me to walk you through the process.
The outfits offering Delaware corporations to do this for you are selling air. Unless you are listed on a stock exchange, Delaware is a lousy place to be incorporated. I am a corporate lawyer by the way.
For a non US citizen to document a pleasure craft with the USCG, the easiest way is to put the boat in the name of a corporation. Does not matter which state you incorporate in. There are 50 of them. Some are easy and cheap, some are difficult and expensive.
The president of the corporation has to be a US citizen. If you have a chairman of the board, he or she has to be a US citizen. Basically a majority of the board of directors has to be a US citizen. For pleasure boats, it does not matter who the shareholders are.
So don't have a chairman, just a US president who is also the sole director and the brazilian is the treasurer and secretary and sole shareholder. The brazilian can sign the paperwork for the purchase. Full disclosure, I provide this service and its not expensive.
But be aware, the US documentation center is months behind. You could get a letter from them saying its pending and it might be enough. Not sure. Otherwise you have to wait a few months. Use a good documentation company.


Sent from an undisclosed location on the high seas or from the lounge chair by the pool, you decide.

[dohenyboy]

If you buy a boat and only have a bill of sale ita not good abroad. You have to get it documented or registered, because that is the document the customs folk need to see when you arrive.

Sent from an undisclosed location on the high seas or from the lounge chair by the pool, you decide.

[su2014]

Originally Posted by sailpower

Why not simply hire a marine documentation agent who can advise you of the various available scenarios and then do the paperwork for the one that you choose?

This company in Fort Lauderdale is very good.

Docs - Yacht Direct

FL sales tax information http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/forms/current/gt800006.pdf

sailpower,like your motto, nobody is perfect. read your govt link where it states "maximum state tax is 18,000" and is probably reason most avoid corporate maintenance costs on personal use assets.the old "beat the taxman" strategy gets boring for most people after a while.JMHO....DYODD

[su2014]

Originally Posted by dohenyboy

If you buy a boat and only have a bill of sale ita not good abroad. You have to get it documented or registered, because that is the document the customs folk need to see when you arrive.

Sent from an undisclosed location on the high seas or from the lounge chair by the pool, you decide.

the old saying "a rolling stone gathers no moss" can apply to RVs{recreational vessls} gathering no or little tax going from country to country as is common as previous poster "Tony" mentioned. Same laws apply to old or brand-new hull numbers.At least that was advice i was given and re-searched myself later years ago. Doubt it has changed much in recent years except the details.JMHO...DYODD perhaps now only a US citizen can be ? president/sole director of a USA corp in Deleware,NV,FLA,CA,some state but i really dont know what the law is today. sometimes just paying some extra tax saves alot of hassle later, cheers

[sailpower]

Originally Posted by sugarbaby-dot-c

sailpower,like your motto, nobody is perfect. read your govt link where it states "maximum state tax is 18,000" and is probably reason most avoid corporate maintenance costs on personal use assets.the old "beat the taxman" strategy gets boring for most people after a while.JMHO....DYODD

Yes, in FL, whether you pay $300,000 or 300,000,000 the tax is 18,000. Tax revenue is up since that was passed in 2010.

There are still other reasons to not US flag such as crew considerations.

The OP would do well to hire a professional for a few hundred dollars and then sleep in peace.