Has anyone actually sailed with firearms

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Therapy

Thank you.

I have no experience with hand launched stick flares. It seems to me it could require a lot more attention than pointing a pistol. Is there a delay after activating?

Nope, there is a woosh and its gone so needs to be aimed away from the body before touching the trigger widget. We have added leather gardening gloves to the box especially for the hand held flares which burn bright, hot and are quite scary. Good for knocking out wasp nests too.

You used to need a licence to buy and hold flares in Northern Ireland. Wasn't a problem if you had a good reason, but it was an attempt to stop the bad guys from using them against us good guys.

Hand guns not allowed in the UK full stop.

Pete

[Sand crab]

I agree with Capn Bill. It's not whether you are allowed to bring a gun in that country, its whether the official that you are dealing with is going to uphold the laws and regulations in that country. Bribery is rampant. Capn Bill...truce. OK? BOB

[capn_billl]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

I agree with Capn Bill. It's not whether you are allowed to bring a gun in that country, its whether the official that you are dealing with is going to uphold the laws and regulations in that country. Bribery is rampant. Capn Bill...truce. OK? BOB

Fair enough. This pretty well states it. Even in the US an official can selectively enforce an obscure and hard to prove law. Sure the courts will eventually absolve you after Thousands of dollars in legal fees, and a few months in jail awaiting trial.

[goboatingnow]

I'll come a bit out of the closet and relate a first hand experience. This specifically related to two EU countries ( you'll forgive me if I don't specifically mention them) I was crewing on a delivery of a big yacht. ( 70 feet) she carried ( I didn't know this at the start) a small gun locker and in it was a semi automatic shotgun and solid slugs.

There was an active debate over the declare or not to declare. I made the point that, due to our registration , it's was likely that we could be inspected. In the two countries we visited both had " firearms to be declared" laws. ( we were inspected in one of them)( and drugs inspected in territorial waters)

In the first country. We informed the Marina we were staying in. They were a bit Upset ( never found out whether it was that we had it or that we told them we had it) , since we were all EU citizens, most marinas now have no facilities to perform immigration or customs. We were directed to the nearest commercial port. ( this was about 5 miles away and again we didn't know how the firearm should be transported to this location( the rules said declare and present the firearm). We decided that it would be impossible to just put it in a taxi with us

We then just went ourselves to the port. There we declared the firearm ( we also had the required European Firearm passport). After much discussion and talking to superiors they decided to " impound" the firearm until we left. The fact that the shotgun was semi-automatic was a factor in their thinking.

Then the issue of how to get it to them after much ado they agreed to bring us back by police car and then they took the firearm.

Essentially the same thing happened in reverse except the bill was about 100 euros for three days ( including the collection fee!!)

All in all the declaration , delivery and collection took up 8 hours.


In the second country. There's was a rerun, except here the customs ( for yachts as the port will not deal with non commercial immigration) was in the nearby major town ( nearby being 10 miles).

When we appeared there expecting as before the same procedure we had loads more hassle. The guy there had a real problem with the semi auto and particulary the solid slugs.( lots of questions 're why we were needed a firearm onboard ) He also said they had no facilities to store firearms nor has the local police. It turned out that the store was maintained by the army 50 miles away. Talk turned to the use of a registered firearms courier etc. ( I think 500 euros) anyway after much discussion they agreed to transport it to their offices ( it cost but I can't remember how much) and then to arrange collection by the army. It turned out the army needed 3 days notice each way. It was also pointed out that this firearm was technically illegal and could be confiscated.

In the end we never sought it back and left the port.

I just illustrate this to show that " firearms must be declared" is a rather oversimplification of the process. In most EU countries yachts no longer enter via commercial ports and facilities to handle this sort of thing simply don't exist.

I've said this to Gord before as regards his list my experience in some of the EU countries is very different from what his list said. His list is based on the " import" of firearms into those countries, but in most cases if you arrive by boat you are not importing them, merely declaring them and following the resulting rules.

For example despite gords list. EU citizens can relatively easily move their own firearms around the EU. Note that relatively is just that, you need a EU firearms passport. A checkout document when leaving your own country and often ( especially Germany) permission from the arriving countries police , then you can keep the firearm in your possession. Of course setting this up...,


Also there is a world of difference depending on the type of firearm involved. Simple small calibre bolt action rifles ( rimfire) and double barrelled shotguns are the easiest to handle , handguns are usually the most difficult and are often completely illegal , with semis and assault looking firearms up there as well . There is a very high chance that a firearm deemed illegal will be confiscated. ( as happened to an American cruiser in german waters recently )

My experience is that the reason is there so few first hand experiences is that few are doing it.

Dave

[capngeo]

I just spent quit a bit of time deleting off topic and out of context posts. This is not a thread to debate the merits of firearms, good or bad.

Just a subtle reminder of the topic of this thread as started by the OP:

Has anyone actually sailed with firearms
In light of recent events, I would like to know from those who have acutally sailed around the globe with a firearm. How did it go?

I have pretty much made up my mind which way I am going to go and I appreciate the fact that everyone has an opinion. I do not want to hear opinions.

DW

The rest who have not done the bolded above need not opine.

[xxuxx]

Here is what you probably want to hear; Yes I sail with handguns and an assault rifle. No, I have never declared them. If I did, I would have a paper trail following me to my next destinations. Yes, I have fired them and no, I have never filed a police report. I simply sailed away. Yes I have been caught with the weapons undeclared and faced more than a year automatically in prison. No, I never spent a day in prison. Reason being, other judicial systems are not like America as they are more prone to bribes "mordita". Here is the key, never let the discovery of arms on board lead to futher judicial action off your vessel. Stop it at the discovery by a very large bribe. Believe me, you will save many hours and many dollars if you nip it in the bud during the discovery period. Everyone is happy and you move on your merry way. One further note of caution: after you depart, shortly thereafter, you must ditch your weapons in the deep sea because friends of the bribees will search for you and demand the same money. That is about as honest a response as you are going to get. Hope this helps. This works in all Latin countries and in the caribbean.

[Duckwheat]

Originally Posted by xxuxx

Here is what you probably want to hear; Yes I sail with handguns and an assault rifle. No, I have never declared them. If I did, I would have a paper trail following me to my next destinations. Yes, I have fired them and no, I have never filed a police report. I simply sailed away. Yes I have been caught with the weapons undeclared and faced more than a year automatically in prison. No, I never spent a day in prison. Reason being, other judicial systems are not like America as they are more prone to bribes "mordita". Here is the key, never let the discovery of arms on board lead to futher judicial action off your vessel. Stop it at the discovery by a very large bribe. Believe me, you will save many hours and many dollars if you nip it in the bud during the discovery period. Everyone is happy and you move on your merry way. One further note of caution: after you depart, shortly thereafter, you must ditch your weapons in the deep sea because friends of the bribees will search for you and demand the same money. That is about as honest a response as you are going to get. Hope this helps. This works in all Latin countries and in the caribbean.

Priceless, Thanks.


DW

[Dustie]

you might want to consider pepper spray that can blast to 20' or a blue dye pepper spray combination concealed to look like a key ring, it marks the perpetrator. Now they have stun guns that look like a cell phone or flashlight. We sailed without firearms and didn't have a problem, but it was quite a few years ago. Dustie.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by xxuxx

... Believe me ...
... This works in all Latin countries and in the caribbean.

I don't, entirely.
Rather than priceless, I'd judge this advice as nearly* valueless.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by GordMay

I don't, entirely.
Rather than priceless, I'd judge this advice as nearly* valueless.

I'd have to agree. chancing a bribe on a serious issues as " gun running" is a very dicey business. You could easily end up 10 times worse off

Dave

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by capngeo

I just spent quit a bit of time deleting off topic and out of context posts. This is not a thread to debate the merits of firearms, good or bad.

Just a subtle reminder of the topic of this thread as started by the OP:

The rest who have not done the bolded above need not opine.

Pretty well. I shot 27 people The others I dealt with using an axe.

Paperwork surprisingly light