Impounded boats in Mexico

[goboatingnow]

I think Ann is a classic case of logical Amercan speak. But typically customs don't work like that in many countries. If there is a 120 day impoundment , it's likely everyone will at least wait that duration. Customs people the world over dont really care , what's 4months to them , especially in the middle of winter.

It will play out with time , that's all that will fix it

Dave

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Thank you for considering this, the importance of leaving a "clean wake", for we cruisers are minor league ambassadors, wherever we go.

Ain't that the Absolute Truth...

[Svdestiny]

Just received an email from bob bitchin's "Cruising Outpost" which appears positive ...... Can anyone verify?

From the email:

" *** "Most boats already released in Mexico!*
*** Yesterday all boats from marina Acapulco and Opequimar Vallarya were released.* News is next week they will release the rest .
*
Many boats have not been "importing" their boats into Mexico and paying the $70 fee.* So tax agents entered several marinas catering to foreign boats recently and slapped seizure orders on more than 300, The Associated Press reported.
** The reason? The boats' owners, mostly American and Canadian retirees who cruise the Pacific and Caribbean coasts, not having a US$70 permit to tie up in Mexico.
*** U.S. officials are in contact with their Mexican counterparts to discuss the issue, AP said, adding that Canadian Foreign Affairs officials know of three Canadian boats that were seized in the November raids.
*** The operation is part of the Mexican government's new effort to improve the country's abysmal tax-collection rate, one of the worst among the world's large economies, AP said.
* * All boaters should have what's called a Temporary Import Permit.The document, which can be obtained online, proves the boats are owned by the permit-holder and affirms the owners will not leave or sell them in Mexico.
** Officials inspected more than 1,600 boats at eight marinas and issued seizure orders against 338 that supposedly lacked the permit.
Reports from Mexican authorities have contacted us and told us many boats have already been released, and the rest should be released on Monday."

Awkwardly written, but I guess I should say "kewl" ?

[Therapy]

only 338 out of 1600. Not bad.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Svdestiny

Just received an email from bob bitchin's "Cruising Outpost" which appears positive ...... Can anyone verify?

From the email:

" *** "Most boats already released in Mexico!*
*** Yesterday all boats from marina Acapulco and Opequimar Vallarya were released.* News is next week they will release the rest .
*
Many boats have not been "importing" their boats into Mexico and paying the $70 fee.* So tax agents entered several marinas catering to foreign boats recently and slapped seizure orders on more than 300, The Associated Press reported.
** The reason? The boats' owners, mostly American and Canadian retirees who cruise the Pacific and Caribbean coasts, not having a US$70 permit to tie up in Mexico.
*** U.S. officials are in contact with their Mexican counterparts to discuss the issue, AP said, adding that Canadian Foreign Affairs officials know of three Canadian boats that were seized in the November raids.
*** The operation is part of the Mexican government's new effort to improve the country's abysmal tax-collection rate, one of the worst among the world's large economies, AP said.
* * All boaters should have what's called a Temporary Import Permit.The document, which can be obtained online, proves the boats are owned by the permit-holder and affirms the owners will not leave or sell them in Mexico.
** Officials inspected more than 1,600 boats at eight marinas and issued seizure orders against 338 that supposedly lacked the permit.
Reports from Mexican authorities have contacted us and told us many boats have already been released, and the rest should be released on Monday."

Awkwardly written, but I guess I should say "kewl" ?

Well I don't know what "Bob bitchin" has to do with it but all the statements present are from this article (US, Canadian boaters left in limbo in Mexico) which is misleading and poorly written. He probably does have access to a news wire and gets information quicker than most.
Most of us here in Mexico think this should blow over in a week or so. Or at least the officials in charge might have a better understanding of what to look for.

[Svdestiny]

Celestialsailor...I do recognize that most of his missive is a rehash of the AP article, but if you read the whole thing he adds some interesting stuff at the end "the rest should be released on Monday" That would be nice!

[Celestialsailor]

Apparently we are going to get some official word Wednesday on what is going on.

[w32honu]

Originally Posted by svmariane

Rule #1: When in Rome...

I thought we were in Mexico...

[AnchorageGuy]

Originally Posted by Svdestiny

Just received an email from bob bitchin's "Cruising Outpost" which appears positive ...... Can anyone verify?

From the email:

" *** "Most boats already released in Mexico!*
*** Yesterday all boats from marina Acapulco and Opequimar Vallarya were released.* News is next week they will release the rest .
*
Many boats have not been "importing" their boats into Mexico and paying the $70 fee.* So tax agents entered several marinas catering to foreign boats recently and slapped seizure orders on more than 300, The Associated Press reported.
** The reason? The boats' owners, mostly American and Canadian retirees who cruise the Pacific and Caribbean coasts, not having a US$70 permit to tie up in Mexico.
*** U.S. officials are in contact with their Mexican counterparts to discuss the issue, AP said, adding that Canadian Foreign Affairs officials know of three Canadian boats that were seized in the November raids.
*** The operation is part of the Mexican government's new effort to improve the country's abysmal tax-collection rate, one of the worst among the world's large economies, AP said.
* * All boaters should have what's called a Temporary Import Permit.The document, which can be obtained online, proves the boats are owned by the permit-holder and affirms the owners will not leave or sell them in Mexico.
** Officials inspected more than 1,600 boats at eight marinas and issued seizure orders against 338 that supposedly lacked the permit.
Reports from Mexican authorities have contacted us and told us many boats have already been released, and the rest should be released on Monday."

Awkwardly written, but I guess I should say "kewl" ?

I guess I will repost this email that I received from Richard Spindler at Latitude 38. His boat is also one that was tagged. Chuck

Chuck and Susan —
A few minor errors. Only a small number of boats — 16 in Vallarta and a few others in Acapulco — have been released. Hundreds remain in "precautionary embargo". No boats were seized in the sense that Mexico took control of them. The embargo just meant the boats weren't permitted to leave their berths. However, you could still live on your boat. Very few boats were embargoed because they didn't have a TIP, as almost every one does. No boats had "seizure orders" — or anything else — slapped on them. Indeed, AGACE has yet to tell any boat owner that their boat is even on the list. Temporary Import Permits don't prove ownership, they prove you don't owe duty on your boat. The boat document is what proves ownership. A Temporary Import Permit does not affirm that an owner will not leave his/her boat in Mexico, as it's actually the document that allows the owner to legally leave the country without their boat. In fact, TIPS were created for just that purpose. Other than that, Bob pretty much nailed it. When he just copies what other people write, he should at least copy people who know what they are talking about.

[svmariane]

Originally Posted by w32honu

I thought we were in Mexico...

Literalist !!

Get thee to a nunnery!

[Stevens 47]

Below is a quote/letter from a San Diego attorney regarding advice for boat HIN going into Mexico.

DECEMBER 2013
URGENT NOTICE FOR ANY VESSEL TRAVELLING TO MEXICO
Before going to Mexico, regardless of whether or not you already have your 10 Yr. Mexican
Temporary Importation Permit (“MTIPS”), make sure the HIN for your Yacht is displayed as set
forth below since Hacienda (the Mexican IRS) has impounded Vessels and not allowed them to leave
the marinas they are in for failure to comply the interpretation of the Mexican law / MTIPs. The
number one problem not being able to readily match the Vessel’s HIN to the MTIP HIN. MAKE
SURE the HIN on your MTIP is correct. If you have an old MTIP it would be a good idea on exiting
Mexico to cancel and get a new MTIP.
33 CFR §181.29 - Hull identification number display.
Two identical hull identification numbers are required to be displayed on each boat hull.
(a) The primary hull identification number must be affixed—
(1) On boats with transoms, to the starboard outboard side of the transom within two inches of
the top of the transom, gunwale, or hull/deck joint, whichever is lowest.
(2) On boats without transoms or on boats on which it would be impractical to use the transom,
to the starboard outboard side of the hull, aft, within one foot of the stern and within two
inches of the top of the hull side, gunwale or hull/deck joint, whichever is lowest.
(3) On catamarans and pontoon boats which have readily replaceable hulls, to the aft
crossbeam within one foot of the starboard hull attachment.
(4) If the hull identification number would not be visible, because of rails, fittings, or other
accessories, the number must be affixed as near as possible to the location specified in
paragraph (a) of this section.
(b) The duplicate hull identification number must be affixed in an unexposed location on the interior
of the boat or beneath a fitting or item of hardware.
(c) Each hull identification number must be carved, burned, stamped, embossed, molded, bonded, or
otherwise permanently affixed to the boat so that alteration, removal, or replacement would be
obvious. If the number is on a separate plate, the plate must be fastened in such a manner that its
removal would normally cause some scarring of or damage to the surrounding hull area. A hull
identification number must not be attached to parts of the boat that are removable.
(d) The characters of each hull identification number must be no less than one-fourth of an inch high.
[CGD 79-013, 48 FR 40718, Sept. 19, 1983; 48 FR 53558, Nov. 28, 1983]
_________________________
Cris John Wenthur, LL.M.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by AnchorageGuy

Bob pretty much nailed it. When he just copies what other people write, he should at least copy people who know what they are talking about.

Yes, exactly...this has been most of the problem with this issue.

Originally Posted by Stevens 47

Below is a quote/letter from a San Diego attorney regarding advice for boat HIN going into Mexico.

DECEMBER 2013
URGENT NOTICE FOR ANY VESSEL TRAVELLING TO MEXICO
Before going to Mexico, regardless of whether or not you already have your 10 Yr. Mexican
Temporary Importation Permit (“MTIPS”), make sure the HIN for your Yacht is displayed as set
forth below since Hacienda (the Mexican IRS) has impounded Vessels and not allowed them to leave
the marinas they are in for failure to comply the interpretation of the Mexican law / MTIPs. The
number one problem not being able to readily match the Vessel’s HIN to the MTIP HIN. MAKE
SURE the HIN on your MTIP is correct. If you have an old MTIP it would be a good idea on exiting
Mexico to cancel and get a new MTIP.
33 CFR §181.29 - Hull identification number display.
Two identical hull identification numbers are required to be displayed on each boat hull.
(a) The primary hull identification number must be affixed—
(1) On boats with transoms, to the starboard outboard side of the transom within two inches of
the top of the transom, gunwale, or hull/deck joint, whichever is lowest.
(2) On boats without transoms or on boats on which it would be impractical to use the transom,
to the starboard outboard side of the hull, aft, within one foot of the stern and within two
inches of the top of the hull side, gunwale or hull/deck joint, whichever is lowest.
(3) On catamarans and pontoon boats which have readily replaceable hulls, to the aft
crossbeam within one foot of the starboard hull attachment.
(4) If the hull identification number would not be visible, because of rails, fittings, or other
accessories, the number must be affixed as near as possible to the location specified in
paragraph (a) of this section.
(b) The duplicate hull identification number must be affixed in an unexposed location on the interior
of the boat or beneath a fitting or item of hardware.
(c) Each hull identification number must be carved, burned, stamped, embossed, molded, bonded, or
otherwise permanently affixed to the boat so that alteration, removal, or replacement would be
obvious. If the number is on a separate plate, the plate must be fastened in such a manner that its
removal would normally cause some scarring of or damage to the surrounding hull area. A hull
identification number must not be attached to parts of the boat that are removable.
(d) The characters of each hull identification number must be no less than one-fourth of an inch high.
[CGD 79-013, 48 FR 40718, Sept. 19, 1983; 48 FR 53558, Nov. 28, 1983]
_________________________
Cris John Wenthur, LL.M.

I have heard this rumor the last couple of days and wondering where it originated from. To my knowledge, this has never been a requirement from anyone, including the USCG. Perhaps this was the Documentation number which is different from the HIN. If anyone has factual information about this from a governmental agency, please let us know. I feel it is a lawyers misinterpretation of what is required.

[ScuzzMonkey]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Yes, exactly...this has been most of the problem with this issue.


I have heard this rumor the last couple of days and wondering where it originated from. To my knowledge, this has never been a requirement from anyone, including the USCG. Perhaps this was the Documentation number which is different from the HIN. If anyone has factual information about this from a governmental agency, please let us know. I feel it is a lawyers misinterpretation of what is required.

That's pretty much identical to the USCG regulations, for boats manufactured since 1972:

http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/pdf/recalls/BSC70.pdf (PDF)

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Yes, exactly...this has been most of the problem with this issue.


I have heard this rumor the last couple of days and wondering where it originated from. To my knowledge, this has never been a requirement from anyone, including the USCG. Perhaps this was the Documentation number which is different from the HIN. If anyone has factual information about this from a governmental agency, please let us know. I feel it is a lawyers misinterpretation of what is required.

Very good point. Does anyone know of any production builder who placed a SECOND HIN INSIDE the boat?

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Stevens 47

... 33 CFR §181.29 - Hull identification number display.
Two identical hull identification numbers are required to be displayed on each boat hull.
(a) The primary hull identification number must be affixed ...
... (b) The duplicate hull identification number must be affixed in an unexposed location on the interior
of the boat or beneath a fitting or item of hardware...

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

...I have heard this rumor the last couple of days and wondering where it originated from. To my knowledge, this has never been a requirement from anyone, including the USCG...

The HIN shall be located where it is clearly visible when the vessel is in the water, namely, on the upper starboard quarter of the outside surface of the transom or if the vessel has no transom, on the uppermost starboard side at the aft end of the hull.
The HIN must also be marked in a second location on the hull, that is either beneath a fitting or an item of hardware or that is on the interior of the vessel and unexposed.

The USA rules for HINs are in 33CFR Subpart C 181.21 -181.35
➥ New Boatbuilders Home Page - 33 CFR Subpart C Identification of Boats

In CANADA the rules for HINs are contained in TP1332
➥ Hull Serial Number (HIN) - Transport Canada
Canada ➥

USA ➥ http://www.nasbla.org/files/public/E...HIN%20comp.pdf