Impounded boats in Mexico

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by bazzer

If your boat was one of those checked, how come it was not impounded if you have no HIN and therefore no TIP?
For anyone to leave their home port and having applied for the TIP through the mail and arrive in Mexico without it is plain stupid. It was easy to get one on arrival here.
The email published above explains what the agents were looking for. Here in La Paz Marina they will not let you dock without showing all the original docs that are required. They have to show copies to e agent as explained in the email. Did the offending marinas have those? When we docked in Cabo we did not have to show or prove we had a TIP. So maybe that explains why boats were impounded there. According to the marina office here they are liable to fines if they don't keep copies on file.
Nearly all of this thread is based on personal opinion and Hearsay, and I would ignore most of it and make a copy of the email and keep it with you original boat docs.
Remember to get a Zarpa when you are leaving Mexico as most other countries will want to see that when you arrive

Bazzer,

If you read TJ's post it was based on his own, personal experience, not opinion or hearsay. Seems like you didn't really read the post at all since, as TJ pointed out in his reply, his boat was out of the water when the inspection took place and was passed over.

It seems pretty clear to me from TJ's post and some others that there was a lot of inconsistency in the inspection process and boats "impounded" that certainly had the TIP and other required paperwork. Either that or there's a lot of people telling blatant lies, which I don't believe.

[TJ D]

Bazzer,

One other thing of note is that the TIP does not HAVE to have the HIN on it. One prominent ships agent in Nuevo Vallarta has been using the official number rather than the HIN on TIP applications for many years without any problems to anybody. Her reasoning is that official numbers are almost always inscribed on the hull, but HIN's are often absent! Excellent foresight on her part.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by TacomaSailor

"I'm glad I listened because cruiser after cruiser came into Ensenada at the Marina I was at and they told me it was a long ordeal."

A cruiser friend just went thru the process in Ensenada the week after Christmas 2013. Here is the note he sent me:

"We checked in in Ensenada. It was very smooth, took less than 2 hours. Everything is in one building now with window for the different organizations in the same room. You just go from one window to the next. They even have the bank there."

They have never been to Mexico before and were a little worried about the checkin process.

Checking in/out at Ensenada is a cake walk....
With the recent moving of ALL needed offices and even the Bank into the one building...where you can also get a fishing licence at...it's just a quick walk and Taco lunch and you are done.

A lot of the "ensenada is a headache" stories are from years ago when you did have to walk to the bank, etc....now it's easier than getting a replacement passport.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Journeyman

CelestialSailor,

I too applied and received a TIP promptly in the mail, however:

1) at step #3 in the online application I was asked to enter the make (marca) of the vessel by choosing from a fixed list of about 20 manufacturers, only one of which was a sailboat (Hunter). There was no option to choose "other" or enter the actual mfg of my boat. And I could not proceed further without choosing something from the list. So I choose "Avon". I was then allowed to advance. The TIP they rushed to me in the mail lists "Avon" as the mfg of my boat.

This was in October. In December, I went back to the site and started an application again to see if that was a fluke. Nope, again at step 3 the same fixed list of arbitrary boat names forced you to select one, or not proceed in the application.

I very carefully took a screen shot of each step as I proceeded since I may have to defend myself with the authorities.

What was your experience at step 3?

2) When the TIP arrived in the mail it was obvious that just having your very official looking TIP document in hand .... meant nothing. This is because the fine print on the back said you must sign on the back to promise you will not leave your boat in Mexico when you return to the US (presumably that means when you permanently leave Mexico) and send them a copy of the signed promise.

Furthermore, it said that the TIP was not valid until copies of documents showing legal ownership, and my passport were emailed to their website. I immediately emailed copies of all three documents to the specified address.

They responded in barely intelligible English saying I needed to prove ownership. I replied the USCG documentation certificate I sent did that. They replied cryptically "you must send one readable document showing the requested 3 documents. I replied "I have sent you all three, they are attached".

I then received an "invalid email" notice for their email address. Twice, then three times. I went back a month later and still their itvbanjercito address was still broken.

I have a complete record of these email exchanges ready to show the authorities if they ever get around to telling me why I am impounded.

My point is to recommend that no one should use their online TIP application process, based on my experience. And that being in possession of a TIP does not mean that it is valid.

Has anyone else had this experience?

I waited until now to comment on your post...
...I just came back from Banjercito at Pitchilingue to get my TIP fixed. I didn't want to say anything, being down here and a "captive audience", if you will.
Like you, I applied online. Problem #1 was make...no Hallberg Rassy. I should have put down other. Problem #2 was the year. They only went as old as 1975. Mine is 1974. To me, they did not do a very good job of proofing their online format. But guess who gets to shell out another $52 for a new TIP? But I can say, it went very smoothly and the gorgeous woman spoke perfect English. I have been taking Spanish lessons since I've been here but still struggle with the language.
But let me address another issue that concerns anybody who has a boat in Mx. That is importing parts for your vessel. I want to bring in new sails, my watermaker and some other spares for a Pacific crossing in the future. In the past, importing into Mexico had been a crap-shoot varying from port to port or border crossing to border crossing. Like the new TIP, procedures for this seem to be confused and unknown. If you ask a cruiser you get all kinds of BS until you realize, they have never done it. I learned fast down here that you only want to deal with people in the know or close to it. I had heard from one expat here who owns a marine store that an ammendment was need on my TIP to state what was coming in before it came in. So I told the nice woman at Banjercito what I wanted to do and her understanding was that it could only be done 15 days prior to bringing the items in and I had to do the paperwork at Banjercito in Mexico. Lets see...so I have to come down here...apply....fly back...get the items and come back down. I told her it might be as long as a year. She made some phone calls and after talking to Mexican customs, they said an amendment was ok now but no guarantees when coming into Mexico not paying fees or tax. But she did say with the paper, most likely it would be a lot less than without it. My past experience importing small items since I have been here has been about 25% of the value. So I'm hoping for less than that. I want to state though that Mexican officials in any capacity bend over backwards to help you. In the US, it was basically..."you're on your own"!
So I hope I'm in compliance and the feeling in the air at the moment is one that is relaxed and the AGACE will have a better approach with a smaller "footprint".

[SV THIRD DAY]

Having a store in La Paz, we do ammendments to TIPS all the time and I like heading out to Pichelingue myself just to see the girls Smile!

I have found the ammended TIP to then be 80/20 when carring things down. Some agents will know exactly what the paperwork is and waive you past, other will try to collect the 16% importation duty, and a few times they turned me around in TJ and sent me to the Otay Mesa crossing where they said all Legal Importations must go through with an Ammended Tip. It varries based on the International Harmonized Tax Code for the specific product, but generally the importation duty is 16% of the cost. Like lots of things in Mexico...enforcement varries and people confuse this different enforement that they may have seen as either corruption or that the rules are different...which is how Cruise Rumors get flying around.

Regarding the time line....in the last three years of selling/importing watr makers to Mexico we have never had a time line problem with a TIP and bringing down major items like water makers, etc.

If you have a large ticket item you want to legally import duty free into Mexico you can always use the services of an Import Agent like Jim Dixon based in San Diego. You have your products shipped to him, you send him your boat paperwork (TIP, Doc, Visa, etc) and then he does all the legal importation paperwork and ships the items down to Mexico. His fees are a percentage of the invoice costs plus shipping. Just as an idea on a $5000 water maker, he can have it landed duty free in Mazatlan for about $700 including shipping...which isn't bad. I'm not related to Jim Dixon in any way, other than I use his services for clients on the mainland. Here is is contact info to file away:
Jim Dixon
Dixon Marine
2907 Shelter Island Drive
Suite 105-265
San Diego, California 92106
619-851-8260
Jim@Dixon-Marine.Com

[Journeyman]

TJ D

Thanks for your post. You are a breath of fresh air as well as clarity on this topic.

[Journeyman]

Celestial Sailor,
So when you could not enter make or year I assume you abandoned the online application, and obtained your first TIP through some other means? Thanks.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Having a store in La Paz, we do ammendments to TIPS all the time and I like heading out to Pichelingue myself just to see the girls Smile!

I have found the ammended TIP to then be 80/20 when carring things down. Some agents will know exactly what the paperwork is and waive you past, other will try to collect the 16% importation duty, and a few times they turned me around in TJ and sent me to the Otay Mesa crossing where they said all Legal Importations must go through with an Ammended Tip. It varries based on the International Harmonized Tax Code for the specific product, but generally the importation duty is 16% of the cost. Like lots of things in Mexico...enforcement varries and people confuse this different enforement that they may have seen as either corruption or that the rules are different...which is how Cruise Rumors get flying around.

Regarding the time line....in the last three years of selling/importing watr makers to Mexico we have never had a time line problem with a TIP and bringing down major items like water makers, etc.

If you have a large ticket item you want to legally import duty free into Mexico you can always use the services of an Import Agent like Jim Dixon based in San Diego. You have your products shipped to him, you send him your boat paperwork (TIP, Doc, Visa, etc) and then he does all the legal importation paperwork and ships the items down to Mexico. His fees are a percentage of the invoice costs plus shipping. Just as an idea on a $5000 water maker, he can have it landed duty free in Mazatlan for about $700 including shipping...which isn't bad. I'm not related to Jim Dixon in any way, other than I use his services for clients on the mainland. Here is is contact info to file away:
Jim Dixon
Dixon Marine
2907 Shelter Island Drive
Suite 105-265
San Diego, California 92106
619-851-8260
Jim@Dixon-Marine.Com

14% isn't bad?

Originally Posted by Journeyman

Celestial Sailor,
So when you could not enter make or year I assume you abandoned the online application, and obtained your first TIP through some other means? Thanks.

No...I came here on the online TIP and when checking into Ensenada, did not seem to be a big deal to them. But then all this hoopla started, so I decided to play it by the book. In the picture I attached, the top paper is the deletion of the old TIP, the next is the new TIP (notice they are pink from the Banjercito office and blue online). The white paper is the amended imported items which include the items I want to bring in.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

14% isn't bad?

Not for shippinig and his fees for getting it in Duty Free (or you would add another 16%). Most cruisers are not able to stomach the paperwork trail themselves for a duty free importation...heck...look at all this drama just for an easy TIP?
Regular DHL shipping to Mazatlan ALONE would be $650 and $500 to La Paz just for DHL shipping.

When I drove across the border last week to ship 11 huge boxes down via Baja Pack, that is MUCH chearper ($168) Tijuana to La Paz in two days (two water makers worth of Boxes). But the headache with that approach is that someone has to drive it across the border, have all the right paperwork, not be afraid of Mexico and TJ and take it to Baja Pack for shipping. You are not going to find "normal people" who will take a day of their life to do this for you. The only reason I do it for Tom at La Paz Cruiser's Supply is becuse...well....I go grocery shopping, hit the Dentist and love Mexico plus he is a good friend. To me it's a mini-vacation to make a day trip "home" to Mexico for Tom once every few months.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Not for shippinig and his fees for getting it in Duty Free (or you would add another 16%). Most cruisers are not able to stomach the paperwork trail themselves for a duty free importation...heck...look at all this drama just for an easy TIP?
Regular DHL shipping to Mazatlan ALONE would be $650 and $500 to La Paz just for DHL shipping.

When I drove across the border last week to ship 11 huge boxes down via Baja Pack, that is MUCH chearper ($168) Tijuana to La Paz in two days (two water makers worth of Boxes). But the headache with that approach is that someone has to drive it across the border, have all the right paperwork, not be afraid of Mexico and TJ and take it to Baja Pack for shipping. You are not going to find "normal people" who will take a day of their life to do this for you. The only reason I do it for Tom at La Paz Cruiser's Supply is becuse...well....I go grocery shopping, hit the Dentist and love Mexico plus he is a good friend. To me it's a mini-vacation to make a day trip "home" to Mexico for Tom once every few months.

Ahhh...I see the misunderstanding here. I would be driving my "Mexican car" over the border myself to where I will be storing my vessel.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Ahhh...I see the misunderstanding here. I would be driving my "Mexican car" over the border myself to where I will be storing my vessel.

Ah...well then just have your TIP and all of your boat docs and receipts that match the TIP Ammedment and even if you get stopped you should be fine. Worst case, they will turn you around and tell you to cross at Otay Mesa where they are set up to process the TIP Importations. Once past the border, it's just easy sailing to La Paz through the 5 Military Check points that are not interested in looking at your TIP, they just want to check for drigs and guns.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Ah...well then just have your TIP and all of your boat docs and receipts that match the TIP Ammedment and even if you get stopped you should be fine. Worst case, they will turn you around and tell you to cross at Otay Mesa where they are set up to process the TIP Importations. Once past the border, it's just easy sailing to La Paz through the 5 Military Check points that are not interested in looking at your TIP, they just want to check for drigs and guns.

I would probably cross at Nogalis. As far as check points go, I have learned to have open boxes of donuts and lemon/meringue cup cakes in the hatch back and exclaim how I cannot possibly eat all those 50 pieces by myself.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

I would probably cross at Nogalis.

The problem with Nogalis is that the Mainland doesn't view the TIP the same way the Folks in Baja do...so if you get stopped, they may not care that you have a TIP and press for the 16% duty. This has happened to me and a few folks I know that had a TIP...so just be prepared.

[TacomaSailor]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

The problem with Nogalis is that the Mainland doesn't view the TIP the same way the Folks in Baja do...so if you get stopped, they may not care that you have a TIP and press for the 16% duty. This has happened to me and a few folks I know that had a TIP...so just be prepared.

I have no personal experience at Nogales but a close friend has crossed the border there twice in the last two months with parts for the boat they keep in San Carlos.

One time with new dinghy and outboard and 2nd time with a lot of refrigerator parts. The TIP they got in Ensenada several years ago was accepted the only time they were stopped. The other time they just got waved thru - sounds just like the many trips I've made thru San Ysidro / Tijuana.

Everything that happens in Mexico is controlled by the local official you are dealing with and how you respond to them. There are no standards, as far as I can tell, for any interaction with any official.

[Journeyman]

CelestialSailor,

When you received your first TIP, how did you return the required copies of the "signed promise" on the back of the TIP, the boat's documentation paper, and your passport? That is, did you try the option to email it to itvbanjercito.mx.com as I did? Or did you mail in to them?

Thanks!