Impounded boats in Mexico

[minaret]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Well I'm not in Mexico and have no 'coals in the fire'...
But.. the way I see it is Zee is on the spot in her own boat and has resolved her situation quickly and satisfactorily... also she knows and/or has contact with a few others in Mexico on boats at the moment... so to accuse her of being a Troll is I feel unfair...
To me its more the scaremongers sitting behind their desktops back in good ole US of A pumping third and fourth hand scare stories into the thread are the Trolls..
Everyone in prison is innocent.. didn't you know..?

The only third or fourth hand scare story I've seen posted on this subject is the accusation that this whole situation was caused by the posts here on this forum by another member. Which is just silly IMHO. The rest have been posts from people who are actually enduring this stuff. Oh, and the story of the marinas "taken over" by cartels...

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by TacomaSailor

He says he gave all the necessary and valid papers to AGACE and his boat is still embargoed. Is Zeehag, boatman 61 telling us that Latitude 38 is misstating the truth?

consider that:
1 - maybe he doesn't really have the proper paperwork as far as the officials are concerned
2 - he has pissed off the officials


I have no idea, but would place a small bet maybe on #2

[highseas]

Could it have something to do with working/chartering on the downlow in Mex?

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

consider that:
1 - maybe he doesn't really have the proper paperwork as far as the officials are concerned
2 - he has pissed off the officials


I have no idea, but would place a small bet maybe on #2

What utter BS!!!

From Lat 38 'lectronic Latitude from last week (and there have beern updates since, you might wanna read them before coming up with this cr@p) ---

We sure hope not, although thanks to the actions of a new sub-agency of Hacienda (the Mexican IRS) called AGACE, it appears the country is on the verge of doing just that — and even worse, perhaps setting the stage for possible problems with the United States government.
In the last month AGACE, which was created by the new Peña Nieto administration to be auditors for foreign commerce, has been checking the paperwork of foreign boats in 12 marinas in Mexico. To be legal in Mexico without having to pay duty, foreign boat owners are required to possess their boat documentation, proof of clearing into Mexico, and a Temporary Import Permit, and have all these documents on file in the office of whatever marina the boat is in. This is perfectly reasonable.
According to a harbormaster who attended a big meeting in Mexico City yesterday with AGACE, Tourism, and other officials, 338 foreign boats were found to be out of compliance with these rules in just the 12 marinas that were checked. That's a huge number, so let us give you a hint why.
We at Latitude 38, who have undoubtedly been the biggest promoters of nautical tourism to Mexico for the last 30 years, have had our catamaran Profligate put in what's called 'embargo precautorio', or precautionary embargo. It's not that we didn't have our boat documents; we did. It's not that we don't have a Temporary Import Permit; we have the same 20-year permit we've had for 17 years. It's not that we can't prove that we checked into Mexico because we have that document, too.
No, our 'crime' is that we weren't on our boat when AGACE officials, backed by armed Marines, came through the marina checking paperwork. Much of Mexican law is based on Napoleonic Law, where you are considered guilty until you prove yourself innocent. Since we weren't around to show our paperwork, AGACE assumed Profligate was not in compliance with Mexican law (guilty), and thus is now under 'precautionary embargo'.
It gets even more ridiculous. When AGACE officials came around a week later, Doña de Mallorca was aboard, and showed them the documents. Nonetheless, Profligate is still on the embargo list.
Other boats were found to be out of compliance because of misspellings on documents made by officials in the United States or Mexico, because hull identification (HIN) numbers were painted over after many years, because AGACE officials who know nothing about boats didn't know where to look for various identification numbers, and so forth.
Boats under 'precautionary seizure' are not allowed to leave the dock, as they are considered to be like foreign merchandise on which duty hasn't been paid.
There's just one problem with this. Most of the vessels in question are U.S. documented vessels, and it's our understanding that it's illegal to impede the transit of such vessels unless a crime was committed. We can't imagine the U.S. government is going to stand by with hands in pockets if 338 U.S. boats, worth tens millions of dollars, are illegally held for any period of time.
Surely, one would think, these minor problems could quickly be cleared up. Not so. At the meeting in Mexico City yesterday, AGACE gave no timetable for embargoed boats to be "liberated." But we've learned today that AGACE has up to four months, under their rules of operation, to assess the status of boats that have been seized. Consequently, there are cruisers who can't move their boats, and there are foreign boat owners who won't be able to take visiting family and friends sailing over the holidays. The damage to Mexico's reputation will be growing by the day, and right at the height of tourist season.
To say boat owners are pissed off would be an understatement. Both Canadians and Americans are already starting to call their government representatives to protest. If you think marina owners, Mexico Tourism, and other business interests, such as those involved with real estate, like this, you couldn't be more wrong. After all, it perpetuates the image of Mexico being a scary place, where tourists and retirees can't feel safe or believe their assets are secure. We hope this matter is resolved very quickly, as we don't think it accurately reflects on Mexico or even the Mexican government as a whole. But the damage will build with each passing day.
Please stay tuned.

[zeehag]

richard does not know about versus does not acknowledge the possibility of these falsification of papers postings.. perhaps he does not read this forum.
i know mexican officials who do and will, as has been spoken to me, act accordingly upon learning anything useful.

richard also does not stay with boat, and boat has long periods of no one on board. they were neighbors in la cruz marina. unless they changed their practices, could well still be same.

as i have stated before, it is only the ones who LEAVE their boats here who seem to have been affected worst, as they depend on remote methods of communication, as opposed to personally being here personally being here makes a large difference, i have learned first hand .


anyone thinking me a troll best be watching in mirror for ears bad hair and bad teeth...and a zit on end of nose ... troll, no, unless actually being out here is trolling for something other than dorado or tuna.

both myself and john hards have written what john did to liberate his boat. seems easy enough fro folks to accomplish the same by following his directions, which are found in the initial posting by richard in lat 38, so you can see the words.
i believe richard actually quoted johns´words.... enjoy researching.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by TacomaSailor

Back to my question:

Is Richard at Latitude 38 telling us the truth about his problems with his boat that is in Mexico?

why would the most outspoken and "money on the line" advocate of cruising in Mexico write the articles in Latitude 38 that are so detailed and specific about his problems with AGACE if they were not true?

He says he gave all the necessary and valid papers to AGACE and his boat is still embargoed. Is Zeehag, boatman 61 telling us that Latitude 38 is misstating the truth?

Well.. as stated.. I've no coals in this fire...
But.. Zee is in Mexico and on her boat as I type.. she has quickly cleared the system with no hassles..
Lat38.. is he on the boat in Mexico? or back in the US pounding the keys trying to favourably influence his situation with his rag.. you tell me..
But.. to be frank... or if you prefer.. fred...
I'll believe Zee long before I believe Lat38.. she's proved her case simply by being cleared in..
Could just be down to something as simple as 'Attitude..'

[Stu Jackson]

You could also read this from yesterday:

Latitude 38 - 'Lectronic Latitude

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by minaret

The only third or fourth hand scare story I've seen posted on this subject is the accusation that this whole situation was caused by the posts here on this forum by another member. Which is just silly IMHO. The rest have been posts from people who are actually enduring this stuff. Oh, and the story of the marinas "taken over" by cartels...

Not here maybe.. but recall a few wild posts in the original thread.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by zeehag

as i have stated before, it is only the ones who LEAVE their boats here who seem to have been affected worst, as they depend on remote methods of communication, as opposed to personally being here personally being here makes a large difference, i have learned first hand .

both myself and john hards have written what john did to liberate his boat. seems easy enough fro folks to accomplish the same by following his directions, which are found in the initial posting by richard in lat 38, so you can see the words.
i believe richard actually quoted johns´words.... enjoy researching.

Good advice. Only "issue" I have, zee, is that, say, if you went into town to purchasde supplies, or to have lunch, when the AGACE guys showed up, that means you weren't on your boat. Right?

So, you didn't necessarily have to traveling like a rich gringo to the States, you could even have been visiting Mexico City (!).

Timing is everything.

But I do agree, before the continued posts here keep dealing with issues in a way that makes stuff up instead of depending on people who are there, it owuld make good sense to follow zee's suggestion.

My read is that AGACE can't seem to find a way out and still save face. But it's Mexico, manana.

[HappyMdRSailor]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Good advice. Only "issue" I have, zee, is that, say, if you went into town to purchasde supplies, or to have lunch, when the AGACE guys showed up, that means you weren't on your boat. Right?

So, you didn't necessarily have to traveling like a rich gringo to the States, you could even have been visiting Mexico City (!).

Timing is everything.

But I do agree, before the continued posts here keep dealing with issues in a way that makes stuff up instead of depending on people who are there, it owuld make good sense to follow zee's suggestion.

My read is that AGACE can't seem to find a way out and still save face. But it's Mexico, manana.

And for the people who hadn't seen the previously posted translation of mañana .... In Mexico, and especially dealing with authorities... It means....

"Not Today"


And...



(there will be no more useful information forthcoming at the moment)

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Well I'm not in Mexico and have no 'coals in the fire'...
But.. the way I see it is Zee is on the spot in her own boat and has resolved her situation quickly and satisfactorily... also she knows and/or has contact with a few others in Mexico on boats at the moment... so to accuse her of being a Troll is I feel unfair...
To me its more the scaremongers sitting behind their desktops back in good ole US of A pumping third and fourth hand scare stories into the thread are the Trolls..
Everyone in prison is innocent.. didn't you know..?

Not quite sure I have seen where anyone was accused of being a troll. Certainly not me. I do take 2nd. hand reports with a grain of salt though.

Originally Posted by boatman61

Well.. as stated.. I've no coals in this fire...
But.. Zee is in Mexico and on her boat as I type.. she has quickly cleared the system with no hassles..
Lat38.. is he on the boat in Mexico? or back in the US pounding the keys trying to favourably influence his situation with his rag.. you tell me..
But.. to be frank... or if you prefer.. fred...
I'll believe Zee long before I believe Lat38.. she's proved her case simply by being cleared in..
Could just be down to something as simple as 'Attitude..'

I think most of us here on the left coast are grateful for Latitude 38. They have been an advocate for sailors, many years. Like any magazine there is a lot at stake for false reporting and I have not known Latitude to do that in the past. Latitude has made it clear that even the information they get is sketchy. I think if anyone is in the US pounding on keys, it's CF members. I'm in a marina in the Sea of Cortez now and the air is very relaxed. Like I said earlier, we heard that we're next. I'll let you know what happens...first hand.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by TacomaSailor
zeehag,

WHO has 'cleared' and who has gotten their boat out of embargo?

Originally Posted by SvenG

Don't feed the Trolls !


-Sven

.................. funny how much is missed by skimming.. do it myself..

[gordwedman]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

You could also read this from yesterday:

Latitude 38 - 'Lectronic Latitude

From this story it doesn't sound like things have gotten better, in fact, maybe worse as the government sounds like they are now confused. I am particularly concerned about what is going on as I do not have a visible HIN on my hull. Why, I don't know, but I am thinking it has been painted over. I do have my Canadian documentation plaque affixed the to boat interior as required but is this going to be good enough? If I chose to stay in a marina for a week to reprovision/do repairs I can't afford the time or money to be tied up there for additional weeks so if this is not fully cleared up by the coming November I will be spending NO time in Mexican marinas. I hope some marina owners/managers in Mexico are reading these posts.

[Duckman]

Has anyone contacted the US consulate in Mexico ? Would be interested in what they have to say.

[Lake-Effect]

Has anyone - here, or from a publication or another media outlet, or a cruising or sailing organization - asked the Mexican government for public comment on the situation, and given them feedback on what effect the issue may potentially have on tourism?

Anyone asked a politician to help get the US to lean on the Mexican government about this?

Applying public pressure at just the right point may bring the quickest resolution.

Just wondering. I'm still a few years away from hopefully cruising the area.

[edit] or what Duckman just asked.