Insurance - Country of Residence or Flag?

[Yes maybe]

Purchasing a Amel SM 2002 Italy, VAT paid.
Tax resident of Australia
Insurance options in Australia are very limited. And many exclusions.

I can flag the boat Australia or now I believe since Oct 2021, Poland without needing an EU company. New Polish rules have opened the way for "anyone with a passport"

So question: Is the legal basis for insurance, the tax residency of the owner or the flag of the boat?

Many thanks in advance.

Ridiculously busy new boat owner, nth Adriatic (Italian system: OMG) middle of winder, the gods must be crazy.

[callistov42]

I am not sure about the EU. My boat is US flagged, I pay my taxes in the US and my insurance company is out of Barbados.

[more]

Originally Posted by Yes maybe

Purchasing a Amel SM 2002 Italy, VAT paid.
Tax resident of Australia
Insurance options in Australia are very limited. And many exclusions.

I can flag the boat Australia or now I believe since Oct 2021, Poland without needing an EU company. New Polish rules have opened the way for "anyone with a passport"

So question: Is the legal basis for insurance, the tax residency of the owner or the flag of the boat?

Many thanks in advance.

Ridiculously busy new boat owner, nth Adriatic (Italian system: OMG) middle of winder, the gods must be crazy.

Italy and buy insurance in Italy, if you not possible register in Italy then Poland

[goboatingnow]

The flag does have an effect as insurance taxes are based on the “ nationality “ of the boat. For example my insurance with Pantaenius is slightly more if its British flagged then Irish flagged ( it was insured initially as U.K. then reflagged to Ireland ) as the Gov insurance taxes are higher in the U.K.

Also for example Pantaenius reinsure with different sets of underwriters depending on the flag of the boat.

[greenlantern]

Yes, Poland allows any citizenship/residence for yacht registration, since August 2020. Under 24 meters

https://www.polishyachtflag.com/blog...he-polish-flag

[Montanan]

Reference as to Polish Maritime Law, insurance / liability. https://iclg.com/practice-areas/ship...lations/poland

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Yes maybe

I can flag the boat Australia or now I believe since Oct 2021, Poland without needing an EU company. New Polis.

Are you an Australian Resident or Australian National?

[Montanan]

You state that you are an Australian Tax Resident. And the vessel is an Amel Super Maramu which I believe is 52 or 53 feet LOA.

Your ship is eligible to be registered as Australian if it fits one of these categories:

It is Australian national owned

It is on demise charter to an Australian based operator

It is less than 12 metres in length, owned or operated by an Australian resident.

https://www.amsa.gov.au/vessels-oper...pping-register

Definition of an Australian owned ship.
An Australian owned ship is:

a ship owned by an Australian national or nationals
a ship owned by three or more people as joint owners where the majority of owners are Australian nationals
a ship owned in common where more than half the shares are owned by an Australian national or Australian nationals.
For the purpose of registration, the property in the ship is divided into 64 shares, which can be divided among the owners as specified by them.

Ships cannot be registered under trade names, trusts or partnerships.

[Canarios]

Originally Posted by more

Italy and buy insurance in Italy, if you not possible register in Italy then Poland

Apply foe a membership in Svenska Kryssarklubben,
SXK. www.sxk.se. Allows even foreigners to be member. When a member you can register the boat.in SXK for a very low cost and get an international Swedish registration of the boat

[yachtgemini]

Some interesting questions buried in there. I am also Australian, had my boat Oz registered but insured in the UK.

My insurers were fully aware of the boats flag, my citizenship and residency but advised it was only required for information and 'know your customer purposes' but was not significant for the insurance decision.

My understanding from when I asked this question of my insurers some years ago was that the jurisdiction for legal matters was clearly specified in the policy. That mentioned claims, payments, arbitration and legal action. Further it specified governed by the laws of England and Wales.

The next issue is when you start cruising will you have enough links back to Australia to maintain tax residency. I did not and the Australian insurers declined to offer me cover.

Many of the British brokers and insurers are fairly used to dealing with these situations and will offer cover.

Australian registration was an excellent flag to travel through Europe with as it removed ambiquity in the various customs officials minds over our VAT status... a bit of a red herring I know but they seem more questioning about EU flagged boats with non EU owners.

Ross

[Alan Mighty]

Originally Posted by Montanan

You state that you are an Australian Tax Resident. And the vessel is an Amel Super Maramu which I believe is 52 or 53 feet LOA.

Your ship is eligible to be registered as Australian if it fits one of these categories:

It is Australian national owned

It is on demise charter to an Australian based operator

It is less than 12 metres in length, owned or operated by an Australian resident.

https://www.amsa.gov.au/vessels-oper...pping-register

The line in bold type, suggesting a length limit of 12 metres for entry on the Australian Shipping Register, is nonsense. There is no such limit for a pleasure craft or commercial vessel.

The more crucial point is the OP's statement of being an Australian tax resident.

A person can be a tax resident of Australia without being an Australian national. A tax resident of Australia may not even be allowed to enter Australia without a visa.

In Aus, tax and nationality have little to do with each other. Tax residency is defined and managed by the Australian Taxation Office. See: https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/c...tax-residency/

Nationality is managed and defined by the federal Department of Home Affairs. Nationality qualifies for entry on the Aus Shipping Register.

Tax residency of Australia does NOT qualify for entry on the Aus Shipping Register.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by yachtgemini

Some interesting questions buried in there. I am also Australian, had my boat Oz registered but insured in the UK.

My insurers were fully aware of the boats flag, my citizenship and residency but advised it was only required for information and 'know your customer purposes' but was not significant for the insurance decision.

My understanding from when I asked this question of my insurers some years ago was that the jurisdiction for legal matters was clearly specified in the policy. That mentioned claims, payments, arbitration and legal action. Further it specified governed by the laws of England and Wales.

The next issue is when you start cruising will you have enough links back to Australia to maintain tax residency. I did not and the Australian insurers declined to offer me cover.

Many of the British brokers and insurers are fairly used to dealing with these situations and will offer cover.

Australian registration was an excellent flag to travel through Europe with as it removed ambiquity in the various customs officials minds over our VAT status... a bit of a red herring I know but they seem more questioning about EU flagged boats with non EU owners.

Ross

In my experience, custom attention in the EU is largely focused on EU owners of non EU boats that are sailing the EU. This is a group that has no VAT exemptions whilst all the others are either inside the vat net or have exemptions

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Canarios

Apply foe a membership in Svenska Kryssarklubben,
SXK. www.sxk.se. Allows even foreigners to be member. When a member you can register the boat.in SXK for a very low cost and get an international Swedish registration of the boat

According to this you register if you are a foreigner but you must either be a resident or the boat controlled by a Swedish based operation


https://transportstyrelsen.se/en/shi...r-of-shipping/

[yachtgemini]

In my experience, custom attention in the EU is largely focused on EU owners of non EU boats that are sailing the EU. This is a group that has no VAT exemptions whilst all the others are either inside the vat net or have exemptions

Sorry but I have sailed on both Eu and Australian flags and my British and Australian passports. When the 2 don't line up the questions come fast and furious.... 'have you imported the Australian boat and paid Vat' is the starter but equally they want to know why an EU boat is in the hands of an Australian and if it is under some tax exemption sheme and how long it has to run before the boat is exported. The Spanish even challenged me that you can't have a VAT paid boat in the hands of a non EU citizen- resolved after a heated discussion.

While it is all easily cleared up and resolved it is just inconvenience and hassle that I can do without.

I can confirm that it was my Oz passport alone and nothing to do with tax residency that permitted our OZ boat registration and that my boat is over 14 metres and that was not raised any where in the process.

[rwidman]

If you want an answer that you can count on, ask your insurance company, not strangers on the Internet.

It doesn't matter what people say here, what matters is what your insurance company says.