Law of the 'High Seas'

[senormechanico]

Thread drift on thread drift alert:

Originally Posted by boatman61

I worry about crabs.... never had em... never want em.....

Then you don't want to fly until the TSA gets a clue about cooties...
This will curl your hair!

Doctors sound TSA germ alert

[osirissail]

I am with Paul Elliott - Although the do-gooders have nice intentions they too often really ignore reality and throw out obviously nonsense statements to try to shock their audience. Which by the way in the video was half asleep with guys with heads resting on hands trying to stay awake.
- - The reality is the oceans are free and unregulated beyond a countries territorial waters. Some countries exert "economic zones of interest" out to 200 nm but these are targeted at "harvesting" resources not protecting the environment. Without legal enforcement there are no "laws of the ocean." Of course there are lots of agreements and treaties which when you get down to real life mean nothing unless all the countries agree which has never happened anymore than all our legislators in Washington will all agree on one thing. Ain't never going to happen.
- - According to popular media reports the oceans have already been stripped of commercial stocks of fish except for the South Pacific and that is expected to be stripped in this decade.
- - But anyway, I seriously doubt such ideas - no matter how good or logical they seem - will even rate a hiccup in the halls of any national governments.

[sabray]

Whats a do gooder and why is it sounding like a bad thing? The presentation was boring. maybe the phrase should be over legislator. We should always be looking at the effects of our actions and checking ourselves to see if we can do better. I guess Im a do gooder that doesn't like naysayers or legislators

[delmarrey]

The other problem would be getting the laws enforced in the areas around under developed countries due to the high rate of corruption.

Heck we can't even get half this country to recognize that when someone crosses the border illegally that they are an illegal alien.

Pretty soon a typical cruiser will not be able to tow a cedar plug for subsistence fishing. Maybe a bit exaggerated but the laws keep coming and coming.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by delmarrey

The other problem would be getting the laws enforced in the areas around under developed countries due to the high rate of corruption.

the difference between corruption in the developing world and the west is that ours is far more sophisticated and legal. it's called being civilised but we've had folk looting our own treasuries for a lot longer - albeit the scale over the last 20 years has been staggering.

Enforcing the law of the sea? I suspect that in the next 10 to 20 years that the Chinese will be doing more of that in a lot more of the world. Control the resources (including food) and you don't need to invade anywhere for them to be nice to you. and wrapping that up in environmentalism would be the PR(C ) end of things.

Got to be careful what you wish for..........

[boatman61]

The thing is the West does not want better legislation/laws in the third world... our Corporation's are making to much profit to go down that road....
That's why you have/had things like Bhopal and why just about every Westerner wears clothes made by kids in sweat shops throughout Asia....
Clamour for change till the price goes up...
Hypocrisy Rools....

[Chief Engineer]

Has anyone ever asked the kids in the "sweat shops"?

Why America and the world support Communist China via wally world
et. al is beyond me.

Carter gave control of the Panama Canal essentially to China

Africa is being taken over by China

The US Government is selling its' soul and our future to China

[Elitch]

A couple things to consider here. 1. When you are all talking about laws, I assume you mean Statutes. Laws are laws, and unbreakable such as gravity, the speed of light, the sound barrier at Earth normal air pressure, etc. \
Statutes on the other hand are the myriad words written on paper by Men to control other Men. And that's all they are. Clubhouse rules that are forced upon people under threat of violence, often without consent or understanding.

2. Statutes are written by politicians and enforced only through violence or the threat of violence. IE. fined for some stupid thing-dispute in court-lose-refuse to pay fine-go to jail. (extortion if you or I tried to do such a thing. Try fining your neighbor for doing something you don't like, see how that goes.) My point is this. How many politicians do you trust? Police? Why would solutions come from this miasma of threats and violence?

3. Nobody has the answer. Individual human beings are terrible at managing complex systems single handed. Viable solutions arise from cooperation and collaboration by means of education. Peace has never been brought at the point of a gun, only slavery. Learning has never come of rote obedience, and statutes never make you free. educate your fellow man, advocate property rights and personal responsibilities and freedoms. Let people choose how to live for themselves and stop thinking that you know best. Because you don't, I don't and the politicians and their cronies must certainly don't.

By the way, when you mention corporations as a reason that gov't needs to control things. I need to point out that corporations are creations of gov't and without the limited liability these corps enjoy, granted them by the gov't, we would be back in control of the actions of business. If Bp wasn't a corporation, the people of the Gulf Coast could sue for damages, and believe, we would have much more responsible business practices regarding the environment.

[Whimsy]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Commercalism should ALWAYS be monitored... it has no conscience

Interesting point, but it begs the question, monitored by whom?

[Ben M-P]

An interesting side effect of not having a "law of the sea"(as in regulations etc.) is that if someone decides that they can destroy or deplete a resource someone else can decide to discourage or try to stop them (Japanese whalers vs. Sea Shepherd).

I think that it would be a better idea to have a list of "deprecated practices" for international waters like W3C in web design if some one chose to go ahead and do them then anyone would be allowed "discourage" them (within reasonable limits) kind of like privateers a couple of centuries ago.

[VirtualVagabond]

Originally Posted by Elitch

A couple things to consider here. 1. When you are all talking about laws, I assume you mean Statutes. Laws are laws, and unbreakable such as gravity, the speed of light, the sound barrier at Earth normal air pressure, etc. \
Statutes on the other hand are the myriad words written on paper by Men to control other Men. And that's all they are. Clubhouse rules that are forced upon people under threat of violence, often without consent or understanding.

2. Statutes are written by politicians and enforced only through violence or the threat of violence. IE. fined for some stupid thing-dispute in court-lose-refuse to pay fine-go to jail. (extortion if you or I tried to do such a thing. Try fining your neighbor for doing something you don't like, see how that goes.) My point is this. How many politicians do you trust? Police? Why would solutions come from this miasma of threats and violence?

3. Nobody has the answer. Individual human beings are terrible at managing complex systems single handed. Viable solutions arise from cooperation and collaboration by means of education. Peace has never been brought at the point of a gun, only slavery. Learning has never come of rote obedience, and statutes never make you free. educate your fellow man, advocate property rights and personal responsibilities and freedoms. Let people choose how to live for themselves and stop thinking that you know best. Because you don't, I don't and the politicians and their cronies must certainly don't.

By the way, when you mention corporations as a reason that gov't needs to control things. I need to point out that corporations are creations of gov't and without the limited liability these corps enjoy, granted them by the gov't, we would be back in control of the actions of business. If Bp wasn't a corporation, the people of the Gulf Coast could sue for damages, and believe, we would have much more responsible business practices regarding the environment.

Some interesting thoughts here...

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Whimsy

Interesting point, but it begs the question, monitored by whom?

Thats the 64 million$ question... I'd like to think us...
But the past has demonstrated thats a no go... people will react to a national threat/percieved insult... ie the US vs France over Iraq.. smashing wine in supermarkets, boycotting products and calling chips (fries) Freedom Fries... but move it to something vague like Climate change, over fishing, pollution etc and the attitude is totally different... they'll blame the seals/dolphins etc, India/China or just ignore it untill it hits them directly eg; BP in the Gulf...
People in the main don't care..
There were big hopes for the UN when it was first created but lets face it.. the big 5 control it and their vested interests make the whole origonal concept redundant... look at the quotas set this year for an endangered species the Blue Tuna... reduced by 600 tons... laughable... if it was not so sad...
Texas has the biggest wind farm in the world but mention Climate Change and you'll find its a dirty word.. its just the money that talks and Texas is still porducing the worst greenhouse pollution in the US...
$$$$$$$'s matter.. not whats the right thing...
And for those hoping some World Leader like Obama or some other so called 'Person of Integrity' will sort it....??
Forget it... any Politician has sold their 'Soul' 10 times over long before they get to that kind of influence and Power..

[sailorboy1]

these threads always make me feel like a bad person

So I have to read a different one that is about being afraid of something to get back to the core state of fear normal condition

[David_Old_Jersey]

I wonder what our Allies in North Korea think?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

I wonder what our Allies in North Korea think?

I believe they've made a large donation to the 'Sarah Palin Campaign Fund'.....