Metric system dumbs us down.

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by Benz

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I have to say, K_V_B, I admire the tenacity with which you continue to defend ever more untenable positions, both in this thread and in the other metric discussion of yesteryear.

Given the fact that metric has essentially won, you are starting to sound a lot like the Iraqi minister of information...

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

Wait. I get it.

They invented the meter and had the yard sitting around and said, How are we going to plug the yard into the meter. And everyone said, "Well the yard is .9144 of the meter."

Are you the word game guy in the math department?

Riddle me this, "Which came first, the foot or the meter?"

There have been lots of different "foot" over the centuries. The first time everyone in the world agreed on the length of the foot this was done by defining it in relation to the metre...

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by carstenb

.. .

How many here can convert a fathom or a cable to a more "everyday" unit of measure?

Oh, come on. A cable is about 200 meters. Fathom - exactly six feet. Simples.

These are actually useful units.

Sent from my D6633 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Benz

Again, radians may be fine for theoretical mathematics and physics, but even the article admits that for practical geometry they are not commonly used. Sailors and builders deal with practical geometry, and until something better than a 360 degree circle comes along for my purposes, the theoreticalists can have their radians. Which still don't divide a circle evenly in whole numbers.

I actually agree with you 100%.

I've said all along that radians are good for mathematics and physics. In those fields they are much more practical than degrees. And not just "theoreticalists", practical engineers and computer programmers use them all the time.

I'll guarantee that your GPS/chart plotter does all of its calculations in radians and just converts from/to degrees for input and display purposes.

For manual chart work/geometry, degrees are much more practical. But just because you don't use radians, don't make the mistake of thinking that they are useless.

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Oh, come on. A cable is about 200 meters. Fathom - exactly six feet. Simples.

And how much is six feet?

I have never in my life encountered a nautical chart that had depths in fathoms. So knowing what a fathom is was never a priority.

My boat draws 1m10 with the keel up, 2m with the keel down. Why would I want tidal tables, and chart depths in anything but metres.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Oh, come on. A cable is about 200 meters. Fathom - exactly six feet. Simples.

These are actually useful units.

Sent from my D6633 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

For the imperialists, a cable is closer to 200 yards than to 200 metres.

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by StuM

I actually agree with you 100%.

I've said all along that radians are good for mathematics and physics. In those fields they are much more practical than degrees. And not just "theoreticalists", practical engineers and computer programmers use them all the time.

In high school we were not allowed to use calculators during mathematics or physics classes. On tests we were usually given angles in radians. Makes life indeed a lot easier. For example in physics converting between Polar and Cartesian speed vectors...

[barnakiel]

Which system was first seems irrelevant. The arrow was first but the powder won.

We should aim to use a system that is a better fit. Symbols and measure should be cut to fit our mind.

12 can be divided neatly by 6,4,3,2
10 can be divided clean by 5,2

Hence the imperial measure with its 12 inches seems a better candidate for quick calculations.

But you will notice that 60 is not truly imperial because it is x5, while 5 is not part of the 12 division system.

So, the imperial measure has some huge pluses but it has as huge inconsistencies.

The metric system is less well fit for our human use but it wins, maybe due to its coherence. 100=10x10 while 12x12 does not have an imperial significance.

Or does it?

Degrees and minutes are NOT part of the imperial measure of things, they are only part of the imperial mind.

b.

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

And how much is six feet?

I have never in my life encountered a nautical chart that had depths in fathoms. So knowing what a fathom is was never a priority.

My boat draws 1m10 with the keel up, 2m with the keel down. Why would I want tidal tables, and chart depths in anything but metres.

I'm sailing around in the caribbean at the moment and the old charts I ahve are in fathoms for depth and feet for height. I have a stack of them

Dockhead - I know what a fathom is and also a cable (StuM is right - it is closer to 200 yeards than 200 meters, but let's let those dogs lie and have a Botanist martini or two instead of discussing it)

[barnakiel]

And why is partial inch expressed in /4 /8 and /16. None of which are 2,3,4, nor 6.

Typical imperial mess.

b.

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by StuM

But then you need a piece of knotted string as well as the ruler

Originally Posted by StuM

Don't need math at all. All you need is a a piece of string the same length as the circle's radius. Wrap it round the circumference of circle and each length is one radian.

It really didn't take you long at all.

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

And why is partial inch expressed in /4 /8 and /16. None of which are 2,3,4, nor 6.

Typical imperial mess.

b.

For the same reason Pi is infinite.

To me, you guys with the metric system sound like you have proven the existence of God.

None of you is truly agreeing and you're all rounding to get along.

[mrm]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

StuM is right. A ruler no matter how square the ends are is not a right angle. Besides if you want to devide angles the right method is to use a compass.

BR Teddy

Like that?

[TrentePieds]

Quote: "In high school we were not allowed to use calculators during mathematics or physics classes."

Of course you weren't. When I went to school, the only kind of calculator in common use was the Original "Ohdner". No kid - and for that matter no teacher - could afford one of those. So we had to learn to divide and multiply the hard way, viz. using our noggins. Which is both useful and entertaining.

Working in the export department of a large manufacturer of car parts (in Blighty) I prepared invoices for Volvo's in Sweden calculating the line extensions where quantities were stated in dozens and fractions of dozens, and the prices in pounds, shillings and pence. Then I summed the extensions, which you cannot do as you do in the decimal system by summing significant positions and carrying. You do it by adding each new extension amount to the previous subtotal. In your head. And the invoices were forty foolscap pages long with 36 lines to the page. Can't do it any more, because the use of the decimal system for money calculations in my Canadian trade has "dumbed me down" QED!

Don't tell me that it's hard to divide by 12 in your head. Or multiply by 11. If you can't do it, it's only cos somebody (Swiss educational system?) failed to teach you the technique. And how about "Simpsons Rule"? Damn handy for calculating volumes on a "close enuff" basis - in your head.

It is prolly not obvious, but being able to do such calculations as above described is an INVALUABLE aid to the seafarer, not because he needs to "do sums", but because the mental agility that is inculcated thereby conduces to having an acute situational awareness in other circumstances also through training the practitioner to keep numerous observations of "facts" actively before him at any given time.

The few serious contributions to this thread have all seemed to have a "spurious accuracy fetish". Use of the decimal system seems an awful affectation in small ship navigators :-)

TrentePieds

[chris mac]

Of course the imperial system works well for most people. If you grew up using it, it's easy. Same with metric.
Where metric shines is in the extreme levels of math and physics. People at Steven Hawkins's level of intelligence. Mapping out the universe, the human genome, all that stuff that's way over most of our pay grade.
So no, metric doesn't dumn us down. It just opens up the possibility to go farther more accurately.
The whole argument that imperial works for me, we don't need metric, is kind of like saying the old square rigs worked fine for my needs, who needs to go upwind like that?
I can plot my position with a sextant, who need a chart plotter?
World advancements will always be difficult for current generations to fully comprehend. But as it enters the school system, our kids and grandkids become smarter then we ever were. A 10 year old can probably run circles around most of us with computers.
I was very good in math in school, highest marks in the class. I even took correspondence university courses in grade 12. My son is doing those classes in grade 10 now.
And for the record I use an imperial tape measure for siding houses. The product comes in 12 foot lengths, 200 square feet per box.
But when I do a commercial job I measure it up in metric because it is much easier on a large scale. So there is a place for both. At least for me.