Minnesota DNR confirms that it is illegal to ride on the tubes of an inflatable boat

[boatpoker]

How many dinghy regattas have been stopped ?

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

Are you sure this refers to recreational boats? Normally most countries only include operational regs for commercial boats, eg what PAID crew should be asked to do. For recreational boats they offer safety GUIDLINES but it is up to you if you want to follow them (but may have insurgence & liability implications).


But them I am Canadian, we tend to believe a role should be left for Darwin...

Hold my beer while I show you sump’in ah?

[YachtlessI]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

This seems like a red herring sort of thing to post here. Who cares? I just about guarantee if they has life jackets and a kill cord on they’d have gotten off or certainly would be dismissed if they asked for a court appearance

They are contesting it in court, and they did have PFDs and kill cords in use at the time..

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Yep.





Having done this with "tinnies," as aluminum utility boats are called in some places (but not here), I can say from experience that you can usually offset the motor a few inches to port and make it work (assuming you steer with your left hand). You would slide to the starboard side of the bench.


Whether sitting partly on the sponson and partly on a bench would draw a ticket is an open question. I would be surprised if it would.

Our outboard is as far to port as the bracket will allow but this is for weight balance since the driver sits to starboard. One still needs to sit on the starboard tube to steer. Our OB has throttle & gear shift in the tiller so operating behind the back is doubly dangerous. The only other method we’ve seen is to hold the painter in your right hand and stand in front of the engine while reaching behind your back. Some owners use a tiller extension for this trick. Like standing in a canoe.

Guess I’ll need to learn to sit on the motor facing forward and steer with my knees. Holding the partly lifted tiller between my legs will probably get me in trouble for a lewd act.

One previous post noted an inflatable has no gunwale. This is correct. Small Ribs such as ours also have no seats. I suppose a rear facing folding chair with rear (forward) view mirrors is in order.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Quite.


While the jurisdictional questions are complex, the facts on the ground are that the State of Minnesota and its various political subdivisions have authority over a good deal of Lake Superior, the Mississippi River, and the St. Croix River, all of which are fantastic cruising grounds.

The situation is the same in Wisconsin (https://dnr.wi.gov/files/PDF/pubs/LE/LE0301.pdf). It is also the same in Illinois, as posted upthread. New York does not have specific statutes or regulations but has a broad "reckless operation" statute that has been interpreted to include riding on gunwales (https://parks.ny.gov/recreation/boat...atersGuide.pdf, p. 45).


I don't know what the situation is in Canada, or in Michigan, but that pretty much covers all the other major Great Lakes jurisdictions and related freshwater cruising areas.

Reading the Wisconsin link I note that it is even more difficult, not possible, to comply on my 20 ft Tornado Cat. No gunwales, no rails, no deck, no throwable, no flares, no permanent lights and hydrostatic PFD not listed as OK. It is required to ride a trapeze, also a violation. The list is almost endless. BTW, nowhere do they define what a PWC is. Tenders are never noted once. There is also no mention of ribs or soft floor dinghys. Enforcement must be totally Wild West.

I was accosted on an inland Michigan lake on my Tornado by a sheriff boat. 20 knots wind, making well over 20, trapped out, flying jib, main, AS kite solo. The officer insisted I stop for a safety inspection. Decals and registration were current, I was wearing a type III and a floating harness. Stopped, wind would have put me on shore in minutes. The rig would flog to pieces. I refused. I told him it would put me and the vessel at risk and he could see all there was to see as he chased me. He gave me a real hard time for over a mile. I told him I would sue for any damages and his reckless order could kill me. He eventually left me alone.

Michigan has a probable cause rule. Ohio does too following a few high profile abuses on Lake Erie. It got hot when multiple local water cops stopped the same vessel traveling Toledo to Erie, Pa. it was owned and operated by a congressman with several lawyer colleagues on board. The governor got a few hot calls and legislation followed.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Group9

Move to America. Problem solved.

Either you forgot to use the purple sarcasm font or we should have a talk about geography.

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

This seems like a red herring sort of thing to post here. Who cares? I just about guarantee if they has life jackets and a kill cord on they’d have gotten off or certainly would be dismissed if they asked for a court appearance

I wouldn't be so confident, and if some local LEO decides to make you his personal project you could get a series of citations and then a court order to C&D. Sure, if you get a good attorney and the right judge you could make a case that sponsons aren't gunwales and that the MNDNR doesn't get to make up their own interpretations of the law. Not how I want to spend $1000 on my day off.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Either you forgot to use the purple sarcasm font or we should have a talk about geography.

Well, that at least explains why the Onion is going out of business.

[Nicholson58]

Gunwale defined, Wiki

Originally the structure was the "gun wale" on a sailing warship, a horizontal reinforcing band added at and above the level of a gun deck to offset the stresses created by firing artillery. Over time it remained as a valuable stiffener mounted inboard of the sheer strake on commercial and recreational craft. In modern boats, it is the top edge of the hull where there is usually some form of stiffening, often in the form of traditional wooden boat construction members called the "inwale" and "outwale".
On a canoe, the gunwale is typically the widened edge at the top of its hull, reinforced with wood, plastic or aluminum, to carry the thwarts.

An inflatable has no Gunwale. See, no deck guns! Also, no seats.

[Nicholson58]

How does Minnesota DNR deal with these? Just another power boat that is not properly defined or considered under their definition of a boat.

Motorized, fast, no Gunwale, no rails, no lights, no PFD, no registration or stickers. Stand up to drive.

You might guffaw but even with a PFD all this needs is a Leo with a burr in his shorts.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by refuge

Some laws, many laws, were written by fools with too much time on their hands.

Some laws are meant to be simply ignored.

I wish this were true. Unfortunately its worse. Many/most laws are written by lobbyists, handed to the politicians they pay for, and passed into law without being read.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

I wish this were true. Unfortunately its worse. Many/most laws are written by lobbyists, handed to the politicians they pay for, and passed into law without being read.

In this case in particular the provision on riding on gunwales predates the popularity of inflatable boats and was a well-meaning (if prescriptive) response to a genuine safety problem in its day.


The problem is an expansive interpretation by the agency most involved in enforcement and in training of local LEOs regarding on-water policing.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

I wish this were true. Unfortunately its worse. Many/most laws are written by lobbyists, handed to the politicians they pay for, and passed into law without being read.

Absolute truth here. It’s all pay to play these days.

[David M]

Just put some boat cushions on the deck and sit on those.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by David M

Just put some boat cushions on the deck and sit on those.

Just love wet stinky cushions.