Mis representing age of boat in sale????

[geoleo]

I bought a boat that was advertised on Craigslist that it was a 1991 model. The seller also gave me a USCG Bill of Sale form (notarized by him) stating that it was a 1991 . He said he lost the current USCG Document form and had to order a replacement. Well I have found out since that the boat is actually a 1989 built boat. So I have a 2 year older boat than was represented by the seller. Shouldnt the seller pay me for this misrepresentation?

[AA3JY]

Traced/photo’d the HIN #’s before purchase?

[Paul L]

Could have been built in 89 and first sold/registered in 91.

[EarlWer]

What if the older boat is worth more?
Some companies change manufacturing methods over time... An older version may be more valuable ;-)

Details on the boat would help, but may not change the answer ;-)

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by geoleo

I bought a boat that was advertised on Craigslist that it was a 1991 model. The seller also gave me a USCG Bill of Sale form (notarized by him) stating that it was a 1991 . He said he lost the current USCG Document form and had to order a replacement. Well I have found out since that the boat is actually a 1989 built boat. So I have a 2 year older boat than was represented by the seller. Shouldnt the seller pay me for this misrepresentation?

You certainly were wronged. Unfortunately you would probably have to spend far more money than you could collect from the person who wronged you to get anything out of it, even if they weren't judgement proof. And that's just the money part, the time and mental energy cost of dealing with something like this are far more than you could ever get back.

If you do decide you want to take action you need to be able to clearly quantify what you want in order to be made whole. Do you want them to take the boat back and repay you? Then at a minimum tell them that you want exactly that, but if they say no there's not much you can do to compel them to without spending far more than the boat is worth all together. Do you want a defined amount of money that you can reasonably quantify in front of a judge? Take him to small claims court. But it can't just be that you feel wronged by an arbitrary amount, you would need to have sold boat data that showed the delta in value of those two years, which would probably be in the few hundreds of dollars. Small claims court is a pain as well, you have to serve the person correctly and even if you win you still have to collect which can be nearly impossible.

Or you can just vent here's and we will all commiserate with you that indeed you did get ripped off and it sucks. While not as satisfyingly as sticking it to the perpetrator, our condolences might be a better thing for you to settle for in the end.

[Calif.Ted]

My boat was built in November '01 but titled as an '02 model. You can sue for anything but got to prove damages, that seems unlikely.

[Pandor]

Build year and model year are two separate numbers often a year apart. It is possible to have a build date of 1989 and a model year of 1991, but that would be a long build period. Or maybe the build started in December and was really planned for sale after August. That Could be as little as 7 months.

Date of manufacture means the month and year during which construction or assembly of a boat or item of associated equipment begins.

Model year means the period beginning August 1 of any year and ending on July 31 of the following year. Each model year is designated by the year in which it ends.

And for HINs after 1984 both years should appear with the model year being the last two digits.

[Uncle Bob]

Does it really matter? Does the boat meet or exceed your expectations? Does it perform as expected?
These are the most important aspects.
Go forth and enjoy it's use and maintenance.

[Discovery 15797]

Originally Posted by geoleo

I bought a boat that was advertised on Craigslist that it was a 1991 model. The seller also gave me a USCG Bill of Sale form (notarized by him) stating that it was a 1991 . He said he lost the current USCG Document form and had to order a replacement. Well I have found out since that the boat is actually a 1989 built boat. So I have a 2 year older boat than was represented by the seller. Shouldnt the seller pay me for this misrepresentation?

In short..NO.

First, you'd likely have to prove that the seller intentionally frauded you for monetary gain. (For example, if on the Bill of Sale he changed the HIN number because the difference between a 1989 model and a 1991 model is several thousands of dollars. HINT...It's not.)

Secondly, you have to demonstrate you suffered real monetary loss/damage. (Small claims courts don't care about your feelings getting hurt.)

Also, if the seller is the original owner, it is possible (although unlikely) that the hull was laid up late in '89 but the boat was not completed until early '91. (My hull was laid in 10/81, but the boat didn't splash until '82 (Year Completed).)

Sorry...I don't mean to sound harsh, but you seemed to have forgotten "buyer beware."

1. You did not verify the date of the vessel by the HIN (or you did not know) the last 2 digits of the HIN are the "model year" on boats built after 1984)).
2. USCG Bill of Sale (Form CG-1340) doesn't have a place to list the "Year Completed" as does the CoD (CG-1270). (The seller may have written "1991 boat" on the form, but he could plead ignorance and say he was told it was a 1991 model.)
3. The seller cannot be the notary. (The notary cannot have any financial interest in the property being sold.)
4. If the seller said the current Certificate of Documentation is "lost" how do you know that you did not buy a boat that does not have an outstanding lien against it?
5. If the vessel was USCG documented, you could have obtained an Abstract of Title from the USCG.
6. If the vessel was not USCG documented then the state's registration/title would have indicated the model year.
7. If you bought a documented vessel...I'm curious as to why you didn't get a survey? A surveyor would have pointed all this out to you.
8. Some sellers on Craigslist misrepresent the items they are selling...sometimes on purpose, sometimes on accident.

I'm betting you bought the boat because you liked it, and thought it was a good deal. There may be some folks here that will commiserate with you over this, but I say 'get over it' and go sailing!

Or, you can hire a lawyer...the going rate for lawyers here is about $250 per hour. Your choice.

[Montanan]

A boat is considered to be a "she" and no gentlemen ever asks a lady what her real age is.

1989 or 1991, makes little real world difference, as it is an old boat, unless there is some specific collectors value with a specific year of build, or there was a significant change in the model or manufacturing during those years.

The post that stated that its date of first sale could have been 1991 is very relevant. The economy tanked in the last half of 1989 and was in a recession in the early 90's. Unemployment rose steeply and I suspect boat sales faltered.

Lest we not forget the 1990 Oil Price Shock with the invasion of Kuwait.

Primary factors for the recession believed to have led to the recession include the following: restrictive monetary policy enacted by central banks, primarily in response to inflation concerns, the loss of consumer and business confidence as a result of the 1990 oil price shock, the end of the Cold War and the subsequent decrease in defense spending, the savings and loan crisis and a slump in office construction resulting from overbuilding during the 1980s. The US economy returned to 1980s level growth by 1993 and global GDP growth by 1994.

[boatpoker]

Pandor in post #7 has it right.

How do you know it's an 89'. What is the HIN/MIC ?

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by geoleo

I bought a boat that was advertised on Craigslist that it was a 1991 model. The seller also gave me a USCG Bill of Sale form (notarized by him) stating that it was a 1991 . He said he lost the current USCG Document form and had to order a replacement. Well I have found out since that the boat is actually a 1989 built boat. So I have a 2 year older boat than was represented by the seller. Shouldnt the seller pay me for this misrepresentation?

Seriously?

[mvweebles]

Absent allegations of fraud, a criminal matter, you need only establish two things in a civil/contract proceeding: That the misrepresentation occurred; and that you sustained material and consequential damages as a result. Getting a valuation on a 30 year old boat is very difficult in the best of circumstances. Differentiating valuation between a 29 and 31 year old boat is not possible.

In short, you have no course of action.

Peter

[denverd0n]

Bill of sale "notarized" by the seller should have been a HUUUUGE red flag!


My advice to anyone considering filing a lawsuit is to first read "Bleak House," by Charles Dickens.

[A la carte]

Unfortunately, Due Diligence is the buyer's responsibility.