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**Jammer** · 24-08-2021, 06:33

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqfyUJDzWrQ&t=9s

On the St. Clair River near Lake Huron.

**Jammer** · 24-08-2021, 07:15

Chart: https://charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/14852.shtml (see inset)

It appears to me that the sailboat was heading upstream fighting a brisk current in light winds. The freighter was overtaking and trying to line up to pass under the Blue Water bridge in a particular way. It would interesting to know if either vessel tried to hail the other on VHF.

There are special navigation rules in Coast Pilot 6, Chapter 2, 162.134 that cover part of this area and that impose one-way transit rules. It is not clear to me whether they cover the are where the near miss occurred.

Knotical · 24-08-2021, 08:06

The sailboat got lucky. The freighter had no where to go and had to turn, it blew 5 warning horns to alert the sailboat and finally made the turn intending to pass in front of the sailboat which was barely moving. I doubt they talked on vhf, if they did the freighter wouldn’t have had to blow 5 horns again and the sailboat would have changed course sooner rather than at the last moment.

rwidman · 24-08-2021, 08:10

This video has been posted in other places and it's unbelievable how stupid some of the comments are.

If you think your silly little sailboat is the "stand on" vessel in a river channel when a 1,000 foot long cargo ship is bearing down on you, you are a blithering idiot!

And no, the freighter can't just stop and wait for you to cross the channel.

Knotical · 24-08-2021, 08:19

Our bay has a narrow entrance facing south when coming in from LI sound, given southerly winds in the summer it’s usually on the nose and we have to tack several times to enter the bay. I usually sail towards plum point (NOAA 12366) before the final tack, boats coming out the bay are crossing my tack path and most times I tack early on for them to see me. In very few instances I have found boaters who would anticipate my tack/course change and would give me a pretty wide berth, they know I have no where to go and have my gratitude. Boating is not just minding your own business but be aware of the surroundings, in the above video you can see the crew started scrambling when the freighter was heading straight towards them, nothing before that.

Lake-Effect · 24-08-2021, 08:27

Deer in the headlights. The freighter's course is pretty clear, that sailboat wouldn't have made it across even if it hadn't stalled in irons. Would have been very interesting to hear CH16 at that time. I'm guessing the sailboat probably didn't even have the VHF on, or think to use it.

Mirage35 · 25-08-2021, 04:37

When I was first learning to sail I passed through that area (with one pretty near miss, but that's another story). The way a more experienced sailor explained it to me was:
- IF you're the stand-on vessel, and
- IF the freighter sees you, and
- IF he cares,
He still can't turn in time to do anything about it. Get out of the way.

rwidman · 25-08-2021, 05:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnglaisInHull

When I was first learning to sail I passed through that area (with one pretty near miss, but that's another story). The way a more experienced sailor explained it to me was:
- IF you're the stand-on vessel, and
- IF the freighter sees you, and
- IF he cares,
He still can't turn in time to do anything about it. Get out of the way.

The captain or pilot of the freighter certainly does care, because running over a sailboat and killing a few people will involve a lot of paperwork and harm his/her career.

But you are correct, that freighter cannot stop or alter course at this point.

The guy in the sailboat should have seen that freighter coming and gotten out of the way much sooner than he did.

rslifkin · 25-08-2021, 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwidman

The guy in the sailboat should have seen that freighter coming and gotten out of the way much sooner than he did.

Agreed, even if he thought he was stand on, he pushed it too far and damn near ran himself out of bail-out time.

**boatman61** · 25-08-2021, 05:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Deer in the headlights. The freighter's course is pretty clear, that sailboat wouldn't have made it across even if it hadn't stalled in irons. Would have been very interesting to hear CH16 at that time. I'm guessing the sailboat probably didn't even have the VHF on, or think to use it.

But.. But.!!!... I'm stand on vessel.. it sez so here...

**StuM** · 25-08-2021, 06:30

Rule 9 ???
(b). A vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway.
...
(d). A vessel shall not cross a narrow channel or fairway if such crossing impedes the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within such channel or fairway. The latter vessel may use the sound signal prescribed in Rule 34(d)if in doubt as to the intention of the crossing vessel.

**Jammer** · 25-08-2021, 06:56

I'm intrigued by the replies.

The sailboat didn't come out of nowhere -- it was heading upriver slowly and its presence shouldn't have been a surprise to the freighter. The freighter had ample opportunity to slow down, stop, go to the other side, call on the radio, etc etc rather than forcing a near collision. In contrast, prior to the freighter starting its turn by which time it's really too late, it is not abundantly clear from the sailboat's point of view how the freighter is going to turn and what the sailboat should do.

The freighter was overtaking and it appears to me that the sailboat was keeping more or less to the starboard side of the channel, that is, river left.

Quote:

Originally Posted by StuM

Rule 9 ???
(b). A vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway.

Is it clear to you from the video and the chart that there is a narrow channel? It appears from the chart that the channel is twice as wide as the 600' horizontal clearance of the bridge, and the freighter is quite a bit narrower than the bridge.

I think the only clear conclusion from this is that under the totality of the circumstances the sailboat should have been motoring.

Nicholson58 · 25-08-2021, 07:01

We sailed down through here. St Claire River at Detroit. Current is 1.5 to 3.5. Many standing waves. The sailboat is attempting to sail against the current. He might as well have anchored in the channel. I wouldn’t do this river without AIS, radio, engine. There are some places with an alternate channel but not here. It’s best to operate upstream in the side margins where the current is lower and away from designated channels. Background is Sarnia. Sail is probably headed for Lake Huron.

I suspect the freighter attempted to hail the sailers who probably had no active radio. Noted that no scrambling is observed on the sailboat until the freighter turns into him. They never hit the key that I could see. The freighter is, of course, constrained.