New Zealand: Cat One

[Alan Wheeler]

Oh Wheels... you sound so sexy when your angry

Heeeey, wha choo talkin bout willis! I'm a real bloke I am Bwucy :-)

[GMac]

Originally Posted by pwederell

Hi Gmac, I was talking about the Pride of Auckland boats. I've just started as skipper/fixit man for them. Sure is easier to handle the Whiting. I would be interested in hearing your advice & experience on the W29. We're on C10 but won't be onboard until tomorrow afternoon. No sightseeing for us as I have the steering in bits at the mo.

Arr.. I can sleep happier now. A 20t W29 sent cold shivers down the spine

Advise and experiance???? Easy, lots of beer and an owners daughter who could ........ Yeah right!! get your own fantasies (as it turned out, damn damn damn) One hell of a last race though. The boys spent a nearly 2 hours bailing her out which was a good thing really as I still don't know how we actually didn't sink her. Rates as 1st equal of my best ever wipe-outs, the other was travelling at plus 30knts on a 18fter when we got way toooo much air going over a wake. Gezzsuss...hitting that water does hurt.

I'll pop by when next down. I'm on B7, the one with the real good paint job if you want extra room on a start line Don't get to excited, the paint job will be a boring old nice finish again shortly, with graphics though.

[chris_gee]

Actually I think you will find that a category 1 type clearance is required for 50 miles offshore though that may not come within your idea of coastal cruising or not.
The reasons you can't take out insurance against rescue by avoiding a safety inspection are pretty simple.
1. The costs of search and rescue are far above the costs of most boats, and many cruisers skip insurance because of the cost without including that.
2. The cost doesn't include the value of your precious neck. The Government would seem prepared to spend a million to save you.
3 What insurance company do you think would insure if you refused the option of a safety inspection eliminating their need for coverage?
If it wasn't compulsory many people would avoid it because it might cost them ten thousand to properly equip their boats so they think their and their crews lives ain't worth much.
Ok tell the crew and the authorities no rescue to be attempted and stick to it as it goes down. Ha the nanny state would still try.
As for you know better than any inspector - that may be so however you may have one or two idiots or gamblers for company in that claim.
Get a grip guys - if you can improve the system do it. Just remember that while you may be able to estimate your mileage accurately the next bloke might not be so good and his mile out and closer to a reef may matter. Sure you as special cases should be exempt from a generic system but so he would argue should he.
Many people, possibly more cruisers would be anti- bureaucracy, me included, however don't let that make you miss the point - good seamanship involves prudence not attitude.

[chris_gee]

Actually I think you will find that a category 1 type clearance is required for 50 miles offshore though that may not come within your idea of coastal cruising or not.
The reasons you can't take out insurance against rescue by avoiding a safety inspection are pretty simple.
1. The costs of search and rescue are far above the costs of most boats, and many cruisers skip insurance because of the cost without including that.
2. The cost doesn't include the value of your precious neck. The Government would seem prepared to spend a million to save you.
3 What insurance company do you think would insure if you refused the option of a safety inspection eliminating their need for coverage?
If it wasn't compulsory many people would avoid it because it might cost them ten thousand to properly equip their boats so they think their and their crews lives ain't worth much.
Ok tell the crew and the authorities no rescue to be attempted and stick to it as it goes down. Ha the nanny state would still try.
As for you know better than any inspector - that may be so however you may have one or two idiots or gamblers for company in that claim.
Get a grip guys - if you can improve the system do it. Just remember that while you may be able to estimate your mileage accurately the next bloke might not be so good and his mile out and closer to a reef may matter. Sure you as special cases should be exempt from a generic system but so he would argue should he.
Many people, possibly more cruisers would be anti- bureaucracy, me included, however don't let that make you miss the point - good seamanship involves prudence not attitude.

[GMac]

Opps must update avitar thing.
Wife is loseing 13 boats as of today. The sexiest little sailing dingy.
Trying to make a deal with her.
I'll get rid of 8 boats if I can replace them with only 1.
She likes the idea but thinks there is a catch. She does know me very well but doesn't know what




If I said I wanted an aircraft she'd cut me bits off

[NoTies]

Chris, Cat one for non YNZ events is only required for customs clearance. Sailing the sensible West Coast route from Welly to Auck takes you 60 miles off Cape Egmont and well over 100 miles off the rest of the coast. My argument is partly with Maritime NZ divesting their responsibility to YNZ when MNZ already have a system in place through P&FS and their guys have a lot more knowledge in terms of structural integrity, navigation, safety equipment, yadda yadda yadda. I have done extensive offshore, bluewater passages on commercial boats, some of them quite small, and the Cat 1 requirements are far more stringent than anything I've experienced. I am also at a loss to explain why the Cat 1 requirements for pleasure boat owners are so much more stringent (and different) than the Maritime NZ commercial requirements for a yacht carrying passengers for "hire or reward".
GMac, What the hell is that? Must be a bitch berthing stern in.

[Alan Wheeler]

I'm insured to 200miles out. No one asked me if I came up to Cat 1. They did ask some basic questions, but nothing close to what I thought they should have been asking. I suppose they think that if I disapear over the horizon never to be seen again, they won't have to pay out.

[Windrift]

Alan,

could you please point me in the direction of your insurance broker...?
cheers
windrift@ihug.co.nz

[Connemara]

I'm not sure I understand this debate.

Is it that you legally need Cat 1 to sail away? If you don't have it, how do they stop you?

At some point I will probably buy a NZ boat, with the intention mainly of living aboard and doing some coastal cruising, but I might like to take a jaunt up to Tonga or whatever.

Will I be arrested?

Connemara

[GMac]

Yes NZ flagged vessels get sussed before departure. Legal I think so or very close. Saying all of that every inspection I've been through seems to focus on rudder gugdeons, pencils in the nav station and thing along those lines. I've never been asked to prove any Nav skills or anything like that. Maybe I present well prepared boats so they think we'er organised, who knows.

I'm told only NZ and France get this serious with vessels flagged to their countries vessels.

Insurance wise I've only had the same as Alan, a few easy questions and all is good.

I don't have major issues with the process really. The Cat 1 list is not that spooky and mostly what you would have anyway. I do get a bit pi**ed off when told thing by some bloke who's done a trip to Waiheke on the ferry but I'll live.

Will you be arrested? I doubt it, the authorities do seem to have quite a lack of testacles. Just register the boat to another country and off you go.

pwederell - Yeap, not to flash in reverse but goes to windward real well and cruises at a gentle 120knts. I think I'll need a berth on the end of a pier

[Alan Wheeler]

Windrift, when we signed up our insurance, it was "clipper club" but they have since been bought out by NZI. So good luck trying to insure with them. Although certainly worth a shot as they may still have those people for the marine side. Don't know.
Initially no other company woudl entertain insurign an FC hull. We couldn't even discuss the issue. As soon as we said FC, the imidiate reply was "no we don't insure FC period".
Clipper club was about to say exactly the same things. But we changed our tack just a little. Instead of saying it was FC, we gave all the other details first. When we did say FC, the person said, "Oh! Ummm we don't normally insure FC, but seeing as it is such a new boat, I will talk to my boss and get back to you." She returned our call which surprised us and said "yeah OK, we will insure you".

[NoTies]

I'm with Mariner. They gave me 200 miles from North, South & Stewart Island at a very competitive premium. I have my commercial skipper's ticket but I suspect this only alters the prmium rather then the conditions.

[GMac]

I'm with Lumley thru my broker. I've got full cover inc racing out to the 200ml mark. Why 200mls I don't know it's a Ross 930. About $450 all up or damn close, not bad I thought. Mind you I have a insurance bill pushing 10K a year so maybe they felt sorry for me.

Commercial ticket - your lucky they did not put it up, that's right your on P of Akl not Fullers They never asked about my tickets.

[Alan Wheeler]

I am paying around the $1200 mark. But she's 45ft and I am just happy I got the FC insured at all. At least I don't have to worry about hitting a mega dollar boat. Which means I probably won't ever hit one now I ain't worried about it.

[seafox]

Just googled the Cat one regs. Without buying the NZY book i could not find them after 2 hours of googling.
More in this thread than on the whole internet!