Port or starboard tack?

[Montanan]

I just read this remark from the YBW forum on a similar subject, not sure about its correctness. Reference: Goosewinging - what tack is he on? [Archive] - Yachting and Boating World Forums


"Colregs say that a running boat must be assumed to be on starboard if it's not possible to see what tack she's on. The rule was designed to cover a spinnaker hiding the main".

Now that could make for a state of confusion and conflict because the sailboat that is running downwind may make the assumption / determination that they are on a port tack and the other boat or boats that are approaching may make the above stated assumption that the sailboat is on starboard tack when they can't determine which tack the sailboat is on. I know that I often can't make that determination from a distance and I can't utilize my sense of the direction of the wind at my location to gauge the direction of the wind where the running sailboat is situated.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Montanan

I just read this remark from the YBW forum on a similar subject, not sure about its correctness. Reference: Goosewinging - what tack is he on? [Archive] - Yachting and Boating World Forums


"Colregs say that a running boat must be assumed to be on starboard if it's not possible to see what tack she's on. The rule was designed to cover a spinnaker hiding the main".

That's a very poor interpretation of what COLREGs actually says and the reason given for the rule is fallacious.

Now that could make for a state of confusion and conflict because the sailboat that is running downwind may make the assumption / determination that they are on a port tack and the other boat or boats that are approaching may make the above stated assumption that the sailboat is on starboard tack when they can't determine which tack the sailboat is on. I know that I often can't make that determination from a distance and I can't utilize my sense of the direction of the wind at my location to gauge the direction of the wind where the running sailboat is situated.

There shouldn't be any cause for confusion.



Rule 12.
(a) When two sailing vessels are approaching one another, so as to involve risk of collision, one of them shall keep out of the way of the other as follows:
(i) when each has the wind on a different side, the vessel which has the wind on the port side shall keep out of the way of the other;
(ii) when both have the wind on the same side, the vessel which is to windward shall keep out of the way of the vessel which is to leeward;
(iii) if a vessel with the wind on the port side sees a vessel to windward and cannot determine with certainty whether the other vessel has the wind on the port or on the starboard side, she shall keep out of the way of the other.
(b) For the purposes of this Rule the windward side shall be deemed to be the side opposite to that on which the mainsail is carried or, in the case of a square-rigged vessel, the side opposite to that on which the largest fore-and-aft sail is carried.

Note that there are only three possible situations.
Boat A is running deep downwind and you are on Boat B.



1. Both boats are running deep downwind. In which case it is a simple overtaking situation and which tack a boat is on is irrelevant. The overtaking boat is give way.


2. Boat A is running deep downwind and it is a crossing situation. In which case Boat A must be to windward of Boat B and it will be clear what tack Boat B is on. The only question is what tack Boat A is on and does it matter. In this case:


(a) If Boat B on Port tack - Rule 12(a)iii applies and Boat B is the give way vessel since Boat A is assumed to be on a starboard tack.


(b) If Boat B is on Starboard tack - Rule 12(a)(ii) applies - Boat B is downwind of a Boat A on the same tack, so Boat A is the give way vessel.


So in situation 2:
If you are crossing a deep running boat, regardless of what tack they are actually on, if you can't tell: Give way if you are on a Port tack. Stand on if you are on a Starboard tack.


If you are deep running, you should be able to clearly tell what tack the crossing boat which is downwind of you is on so:

If you are on a Port tack - Give way always. They are either on a starboard tack or are downwind of you.
If you are on Starboard tack - Give way if they are also on a starboard tack since they are leeward. Stand on if they are on a Port tack.


The only confusing part is if both boats are on a port tack but Boat B assumes that Boat A is on a starboard tack. In which case both boats think they are give way. In no situation will both boats think they are stand on.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Sorry guys, Port or Starboard is decided by "the windward side" (if racing. Otherwise it does not matter.)

Sail Racing rules state: "Tack, Starboard or Port A boat is on the tack, starboard or port, corresponding to her windward side"

It says nothing about which side the mainsail or any other sail is on, well except if sailing dead downwind, then its the "boom" (which boom? Aha! circular argument.

Colregs does not address this.

Wrong, wrong and wrong.



It certainly does matter when you are not racing, COLREGs does address this and COLREGs doesn't mention "boom".


While COLREGs does not directly use the word "tack", it is a common nautical term used to describe which side the wind is coming from.


Rule 12 (b)
For the purposes of this Rule the windward side shall be deemed to be the side opposite to that on which the mainsail is carried or, in the case of a square-rigged vessel, the side opposite to that on which the largest fore-and-aft sail is carried.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by StuM

Wrong, wrong and wrong.



It certainly does matter when you are not racing, COLREGs does address this and COLREGs doesn't mention "boom".


While COLREGs does not directly use the word "tack", it is a common nautical term used to describe which side the wind is coming from.


Rule 12 (b)
For the purposes of this Rule the windward side shall be deemed to be the side opposite to that on which the mainsail is carried or, in the case of a square-rigged vessel, the side opposite to that on which the largest fore-and-aft sail is carried.

Yep, I missed that.

[markpierce]

See? Now I'm confused. Good thing I'll be motoring and the sailboat has its motor off.

[sandy stone]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Sail Racing rules state: "Tack, Starboard or Port A boat is on the tack, starboard or port, corresponding to her windward side"

It says nothing about which side the mainsail or any other sail is on,

For the sake of accuracy, if anyone else is following this thread, if you look up the definition of windward and leeward the racing rules say: a boat's leeward side is the side away from the wind, but if a boat is sailing dead downwind, or by the lee, then the leeward side is the side on which her mainsail lies. The other side is windward.

So there is some subtle detail there.

[cal40john]

Originally Posted by sandy stone

For the sake of accuracy, if anyone else is following this thread, if you look up the definition of windward and leeward the racing rules say: a boat's leeward side is the side away from the wind, but if a boat is sailing dead downwind, or by the lee, then the leeward side is the side on which her mainsail lies. The other side is windward.

So there is some subtle detail there.

Colregs -
the windward side shall be deemed to be the side opposite to that on which the mainsail is carried

Racing Rules -
then the leeward side is the side on which her mainsail lies. The other side is windward.

[JPA Cate]

There are times when you just have to avoid someone if you cannot tell. It's okay.

I remember one time, Jim and I in our previous boat to this one, were sailing in the same direction as a friend of ours with a lighter, faster boat. We were trying to overtake him, both to wind up in Barra de Navidad for Christmas, one year. We, VERY carefully, sailed our first Insatiable, by the lee, under spinnaker a few miles to avoid the time for gybing it all, and beat him in. Lord only knows what some poor soul --had there been one-- would have thought about which tack we were on. Line honors, and all that!


Have fun, guys.

Ann

[micheal36]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I think that is a Freedom 40 IIRC, and they were sold as a ketch, again IIRC. With apparently equal height masts, it is a bit equivocal as to w hich is the main, so it will be a field day for the sea lawyers to argue details. If they decide she's a ketch she's on port, but it she's a schooner she's on starboard.

Take that to the protest committee!

Jim

Great advice. Thank you.