Right to safe harbour

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by IslandInfedel

Can you cite where it’s illegal to record standard used VHF radio frequencies in international waters?

Lest we violate the privacy of a armed ship bullying sailboats in international waters lol

Here you go: “Secrecy of correspondence
Any person who receives information not intended for them shall not disclose or make use of that information or disclose the existence of the transmission unless they are specifically authorised to do so.”, which is on page 57 of the NZ Radio Handbook https://www.maritimenz.govt.nz/comme...o-Handbook.pdf.

Other countries have similar laws.

This is the same as if you overhear and record someone else’s conversation on their mobile phone and publish it. Privacy laws everywhere prohibit that.

[IslandInfedel]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

ITU Regulations... Vol 1, 2016, page 256... secrecy....

.......

18.4 § 2 The holder of a licence is required to preserve the secrecy of telecommunications, as provided in the relevant provisions of the Constitution and the Convention. Moreover, the licence shall mention, specifically or by reference, that if the station includes a receiver, the interception of radiocommunication correspondence, other than that which the station is authorized to receive, is forbidden, and that in cases where such correspondence is involuntarily received, it shall not be reproduced, nor communicated to third parties, nor used for any purpose, and even its existence shall not be disclosed

Call the FCC on him, I’m sure they’ll get their best men on it

Maybe after they take down www.liveatc.net


Or...if you don’t want audio of you bullying sailboats on the internet, perhaps...don’t bully sailboats in international waters??



If you’re broadcasting in the clear, figure it’s public and is the same as posting it on the internet yourself. Shy of end point encryption to a trusted party, it’s not private, and even then...

[El Pinguino]

Oh dear, the 'Whatabout Man' has shown up....

Just because someone else is doing something wrong and getting away with it does not mean it is OK for you to do it....

[Souzag818]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Oh dear, the 'Whatabout Man' has shown up....

Just because someone else is doing something wrong and getting away with it does not mean it is OK for you to do it....

[IslandInfedel]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Oh dear, the 'Whatabout Man' has shown up....

Just because someone else is doing something wrong and getting away with it does not mean it is OK for you to do it....

Seems “whataboutism” was a word made by people who couldn’t stand that old “those in a glass house shouldn’t throw rocks”

Zero care for a armed powerboat picking on sailboats in international waters. Frankly I would consider recording them a act of protecting your boat and crew, and in a time of emergency the captain is allowed to deviate from most any rule to protect his ship.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OaKbZW0pqkM

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by IslandInfedel

Seems “whataboutism” was a word made by people who couldn’t stand that old “those in a glass house shouldn’t throw rocks”

Zero care for a armed powerboat picking on sailboats in international waters. Frankly I would consider recording them a act of protecting your boat and crew, and in a time of emergency the captain is allowed to deviate from most any rule to protect his ship.

You can't see the difference between the captain of Windora recording the conversation between himself and the Tongan ship and a third party recording it and posting it to Youtube?....OK......

[IslandInfedel]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

You can't see the difference between the captain of Windora recording the conversation between himself and the Tongan ship and a third party recording it and posting it to Youtube?....OK......

Honestly I expect anything sent in the clear to be recorded, especially anything on VHF that anyone can listen to, so I have a hard time getting worked up about it.

But when the audio is of a power crazed armed boat, trying to push others around, I find it a public service to record and make public, especially when the bully is sponsored by the government of Australia.
I hope people shining a light on this ugly behavior might help fix it, or at least document it enough so when Tonga finally ends up killing some cruiser it can’t be brushed off as a “isolated incident”

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by IslandInfedel

Honestly I expect anything sent in the clear to be recorded, especially anything on VHF that anyone can listen to, so I have a hard time getting worked up about it.

But when the audio is of a power crazed armed boat, trying to push others around, I find it a public service to record and make public, especially when the bully is sponsored by the government of Australia.
I hope people shining a light on this ugly behavior might help fix it, or at least document it enough so when Tonga finally ends up killing some cruiser it can’t be brushed off as a “isolated incident”

Take a look at your own ship’s radio license and the legislation that applies to it. It’s the law, not what you ‘expect’. Sheesh.

And makes you think Tongans would ever escalate such that someone is killed? Power crazed? Bully? Ugly behaviour? Quit with the hatred.

[Jim Cate]

I hope people shining a light on this ugly behavior might help fix it, or at least document it enough so when Tonga finally ends up killing some cruiser it can’t be brushed off as a “isolated incident”

good grief, mate, that's a bit of overextension, dontcha think?

Might as well accuse them of starting a nuclear war while you are about it.

Do remember that in their eyes Minerva IS NOT international waters, but under their supervision. Fiji disputes this as do some others, but the patrol boat skipper is under orders from his command, and in fact he did not harm anyone, so perhaps "power crazed" might be a little OTT.

Jim

[IslandInfedel]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Take a look at your own ship’s radio license and the legislation that applies to it. It’s the law, not what you ‘expect’. Sheesh.

And makes you think Tongans would ever escalate such that someone is killed? Power crazed? Bully? Ugly behaviour? Quit with the hatred.

We have tons of VHF recordings in the US, even automated radio checks that record your transmission and play it back for you, don’t think you’d find anyone who didn’t expect their VHF marine or air transmissions to be recorded, nor anyone who would even take up a case about it.

Wouldn’t say hate, but very close, bullying cruisers out of a protected harbor that is outside of your EEZ, that lacks honor, law or even common decency

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

good grief, mate, that's a bit of overextension, dontcha think?

Might as well accuse them of starting a nuclear war while you are about it.

Do remember that in their eyes Minerva IS NOT international waters, but under their supervision. Fiji disputes this as do some others, but the patrol boat skipper is under orders from his command, and in fact he did not harm anyone, so perhaps "power crazed" might be a little OTT.

Jim

Pushing others around in international waters is wrong, especially from a safe harbor

Befehl ist Befehl?

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by IslandInfedel

We have tons of VHF recordings in the US, even automated radio checks that record your transmission and play it back for you, don’t think you’d find anyone who didn’t expect their VHF marine or air transmissions to be recorded, nor anyone who would even take up a case about it.
...

Surprise, you’re still wrong!

This is from the US FCC: §15.9 Prohibition against eavesdropping.
Except for the operations of law enforcement officers conducted under lawful authority, no person shall use, either directly or indirectly, a device operated pursuant to the provisions of this part for the purpose of overhearing or recording the private conversations of others unless such use is authorized by all of the parties engaging in the conversation.

Refer to FCC Title 47: https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-...tions-title-47

Recording and publishing is illegal.

[IslandInfedel]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Surprise, you’re still wrong!

This is from the US FCC: §15.9 Prohibition against eavesdropping.
Except for the operations of law enforcement officers conducted under lawful authority, no person shall use, either directly or indirectly, a device operated pursuant to the provisions of this part for the purpose of overhearing or recording the private conversations of others unless such use is authorized by all of the parties engaging in the conversation.

Refer to FCC Title 47: https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-...tions-title-47

Recording and publishing is illegal.

A transmission on a CH16 or 121.5 or any of the other marine band or air band, that ANYONE else with a radio can hear is not private, further more every ATC facility records all air band, I’d wager the USCG records most on 16, and there are tons of radio check facilities that record and replay your own radio check.

[SV DINGO]

In my birth country we have a saying that roughly translated is like this:

The way you shout into the forest is the way the echo will return to you.

Right now we are in times where some people try to teach normally law obiding citisense that Authorities are all evil and need to be treated with disrespect.

May be listen to the recording again , i find absolutely nothing bullish or intimidating from the Tongan's but i do find the kiwi very aggressive. If you cant handle the heat get out or let your wife onto the radio before you do more harm.

Testing times but aggression does not get you anywhere.

[NevilleCat]

Agree, shockingly aggressive.
The Tongans seem pretty calm. Apart from the fact that they just told him he had to get out.
Doesn't seem like the normal first interaction to me...wouldn't they normally say g'day and then maybe rock up in the tender to have a chat?
Maybe that had already happened and this was the result of them checking with higher authorities and getting back to him?

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by IslandInfedel

A transmission on a CH16 or 121.5 or any of the other marine band or air band, that ANYONE else with a radio can hear is not private, further more every ATC facility records all air band, I’d wager the USCG records most on 16, and there are tons of radio check facilities that record and replay your own radio check.

Any organisation (note, NOT a person) will have authorisation to record radio communications, as shown in FCC Title 47. Individuals cannot have such authorisation.

What don’t you understand about the (legal) differences that have been cited for you between hearing a conversation, recording that conversation, and publishing that conversation?

It’s not about privacy; it’s about recording and publishing.