Scandinavian flags (Norway, Sweden, Denmark) - any complications?

[GTom]

I am resident in the landlocked Switzerland, which is quite an impractical country to register an ocean-going craft in. Hence the idea to let the boat's registration where I buy it if it's not a hurdle.

I also plan a multiple season long cruising around Norway and Iceland - thought maybe the VAT status is less endangered if the boat was visiting the non-EU Nordic neighbours.

[svrodeorm]

Ok, that's useful info. Though we've met with several Swiss flagged vessels over the years, I know nothing about costs and regulations there. I do know that France is to be avoided for those reasons. Complicated regulations and bureaucracy/ taxes etc. I have briefly met two French owners who choose th register the boat in the Netherlands, likely for a good reason. You could check that! Others fly Belgian flags. Then there are the small tropical islands AKA tax havens if you are so inclined.

[carstenb]

we've also met a number of swiss flagged vessels - also in the carribean.

If you're worried aobut registration - if you buy the boat in Denmark, join the FTLF (Danish Ocean Cruisers Association), at FTLF.dk and ask them for their Registration certificate.

They issue them and while they are in no way an "Official Government Document", they are accepted all over the world. To my knowledge - no country has rejected it. CErtainly it has been accepted in all the countries we've visited.

It costs about @75 per year to be a member and the certificate costs something like $150 if memory serves me.

If you get a VAT certificate when you buy the boat - they can also issue an international VAT certificate (this comes in mighty handy some places)

If you plan on sailing to Norway - you will want ot check the Norwegian regulations - they have some intersting VAT laws and you can easily end up getting caught and having to apy

[GTom]

Originally Posted by svrodeorm

Though we've met with several Swiss flagged vessels over the years, I know nothing about costs and regulations there.

Bureaucracy, equipment requirements are definitely there, checked it a while ago. I couldn't figure if I have to pay a Swiss surveyor to travel to the boat from time to time to verify the required equipment - certainly something I don't want to pay heavy $$ for. They also limit the use of the boat, under Swiss flag you can't do any commercial activities like giving milebuilders, chartering, etc. Not something I'd plan from the beginning but don't want to exclude the possibility.

Originally Posted by carstenb

If you're worried aobut registration - if you buy the boat in Denmark, join the FTLF (Danish Ocean Cruisers Association), at FTLF.dk and ask them for their Registration certificate.

Sounds good! I've read there is a similar possibility for Sweden (SXK)

If you plan on sailing to Norway - you will want ot check the Norwegian regulations - they have some intersting VAT laws ...

Yupp, heard about that. I wanted to go up to the far north spending 2 seasons going up, one season down, but that might cost me a full VAT bill.

BTW, do Danish/Swedish boats also loose their "VAT paid" status if they leave EU waters for more than 36 months?

[barnakiel]

In Sweden, leisure boats can be owned and registered by EU citizens.

Boats used commercially (schools, charters, hotels, etc.) must be registered in the commercial registrar. As other posters mentioned there may be a nationality requirement for this registrar.

You should register your boat in a country where your business is registered. Scandinavian flags are not convenience flags.

I have seen many charter boats registered under Belgian flag, where owners were not Belgian (still, they were EU citizens). I have seen a similar procedure with Spanish owned Dutch flagged boats too (pleasure craft, not commercial use).

b.

[GTom]

Thank you barnakiel! Commercial activitiy is very low on my list, maybe accepting a crew that pays his expenses - but to my limited knowledge that's not commercial.

[barnakiel]

If they pay, it is.

You get an income this way and income is taxable in Sweden.

Elsewhere's definitions and rules on what is commercial do not apply in Sweden.

EU doesn not have uniform law and so the law of the flag country prevails.

If you ask Swedish tax authorities, they will respond to your email. They are very effective there. I always ask them when in doubt.

Cheers,
b.

[GTom]

I put it wrong, crew takes care of everything outside the boat (his/her flights, insurances, waterproofs), I (and the tax man) don't take a penny.

[TeddyDiver]

In Norway with a norwegian registered boat you need a lisence, and they don't accept all foreign one's..
BR Teddy

[lifgun]

GTom
I can't see the problem with a Swiss flagged vessel. The registration is no problem, no on site checks necessary, you'll stay as a vessel in transit which is literally no problem in the nordic countries. You can avoid the VAT. I own a danish boat which is Swiss flagged and never had any problems. I think also that the insurance is extremely good and simple if you do this in Switzerland.
Beside the 18 months time limitation, no problems encountered so far. But anyhow in my case the boat is staying outside the EU right now....

[GTom]

Originally Posted by lifgun

GTom
I can't see the problem with a Swiss flagged vessel. The registration is no problem, no on site checks necessary, you'll stay as a vessel in transit which is literally no problem in the nordic countries. You can avoid the VAT. I own a danish boat which is Swiss flagged and never had any problems. I think also that the insurance is extremely good and simple if you do this in Switzerland.
Beside the 18 months time limitation, no problems encountered so far. But anyhow in my case the boat is staying outside the EU right now....

Found this (sorry, German). This one was a transfer from lake to blue water and required an on-site survey - was probably a one off event then. They also require a Yachtmaster Offshore level certification which I neither have nor plan to do in the next 3-4 years. The 18 months rule might also be a hurdle, enforcing a trip only for the sake of VAT. Of course no problem near the borders (Greece, Southern Spain, Denmark) but problematic in more enclosed areas like Corsica.

[lifgun]

Normally if you buy a boat in Scandinavian countries they are certified for the use offshore (like A, B) and so on. You need to have a "B-Schein" which allows you to drive the vessel offshore. You need a proof of an official allowed life raft and some other stuff (insurance / proof of ownership and so on).
I think the "B-schein" which is the Swiss Yachtmaster certificate is anyway good to have and is no problem to do.
I think even if you are in Corsica you can make a trip to Albania or to north coast of Africa. If you are once under Swiss flag you also can purchase for example new sails without VAT. Anyhow over all no big deal !
The guys in Biel are okay and will help you anyway. Don't forget the VHF license which is also necessary for to run a radio. Overall I assume that the whole thing is much more easier to organize in Switzerland (for you as a Swiss) then to do it in Denmark or Sweden.
The VAT thing only makes sense if you buy the boat from a shipyard, for a privat purchase probably not.

[GTom]

Originally Posted by lifgun

Normally if you buy a boat in Scandinavian countries they are certified for the use offshore (like A, B) and so on. You need to have a "B-Schein" which allows you to drive the vessel offshore.

Nope, you need the "Hochseeschein" (one level above the "B-schein"), and also a powerboat cert if the boat has more than 8HP (6kW) engine. I have RYA coastal skipper and can't to go trough the whole Swiss curriculum right now.

True, I can start with a local (SWE/DK/FI) registration and change it later.

[lifgun]

B-Schein is the old name... now it’s hochseeschein ...right ....

[dreyer]

Some info about Norwegian regulations:
If a non Norwegian citizen living in Norway buying a Norwegian VAT payed boat under 15 meters, no need for registration or license to use it. If taking it to EU countries (regardless of where you are living), you are allowed to keep it there for max 18 months, before you again must visit Norway, Guernsey or another non EU country. If the boat is over 15 meters, you must register it in the Norwegian NOR or NIS register. a onetime fee less than 300$ applies. - no yearly fee thereafter..

Another thing is if you are taking a non Norwegian registered boat to Norway and are using it yourself in Our waters or leaving it over Winter, you must apply to the Norwegian customs for not risking to pay Norwegian VAT of 25% on the value of the boat. Norwegian citizen are not allowed to use the boat as a captain...

The only fee yearly is if you have a registered VHF og AIS Device With a MMSI number, that is costing around 450 NOK every year paid to Telenor who is operating the Communications Licenses....