Shutting down AIS

[NorthernMac]

AIS and radar should be secondary to a visual scan IMHO

Electronics F’ up, that’s what they do, people also ether don’t have, don’t fix, or don’t use things like AIS for all sorts of reasons.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by NorthernMac

AIS and radar should be secondary to a visual scan IMHO

Electronics F’ up, that’s what they do, people also ether don’t have, don’t fix, or don’t use things like AIS for all sorts of reasons.

There are no "Absolutes" in Coastal Navigation.
You use the best tool available for the conditions, verify with something independent and keep testing for fixed and variable errors when the opportunity of using transits arise.

I can see that AIS in a river with many turns .......or entering crowded Singapore /HK waters would be the best tool to use for collision avoidance.

But in concert with Radar PARALLEL INDEXING as a backup to your electronic charts.

Coastal traveling in heavy rains or thick fog removes the opportunity for visual scans, so having the knowledge and confidence to use electronics is what you need to strive for.

Don't be afraid of electronic navigational tools. Learn their weaknesses, study how to prove their accuracy via independent TRUE references and keep checking after every major course change.

[Tigue]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I totally agree P. It’s one of the reasons I’ve never gone to AIS-transmit. I receive only, in part b/c I don’t feel the need, nor do I feel comfortable, broadcasting that level of personal information all the time. It all feels at bit like Facebook … a bit too creepy and open to abuse.

I know… someone’s going to say “then you’re not helping others avoid you.” This is true, but it’s not someone else’s responsibility to avoid me. That’s my job. If you want to transmit AIS data to all and sundry, fill your boots. I don’t need it, and feel no need to do so.

… and on cue enters Carl.

Seems like your saying "I prefer you drive with your car head lights ON but I'll to drive with mine OFF".

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Tigue

Seems like your saying "I prefer you drive with your car head lights ON but I'll to drive with mine OFF".

I don't buy that comparison. You can still see him. You just need to lookout the window.

I understand Mike's dislike because of privacy issues.

A more appropriate analogy is that you go to a party with an electronic name tag on.... Everyone at the party now knows your name, where you live, how much money you make and how many times you visit the bathroom.

Oh by the way, you don't even need to be at that party to get or provide that information.... It can be found out globally,..... but AIS is like that tempting invitation to a party which is offering an open bar! [emoji57]

[Haddock1]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

If you want to transmit AIS data to all and sundry, fill your boots. I don’t need it, and feel no need to do so.

… and on cue enters Carl.

Hi Mike, whats the harm of making your vessel visible by AIS especially at night. Sailing the med relying on handheld compasses to calculate if a collision is imminent is a pain and a worry. Of course not everyone has AIS and the old ways have to be applied. But if you've got AIS why would you switch it off? What harm is there in letting another vessel know your boat name, speed, course etc and its only transmitted to the horizon from the height of the aerial.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I don't buy that comparison. You can still see him. You just need to lookout the window.

I understand Mike's dislike because of privacy issues.

A more appropriate analogy is that you go to a party with an electronic name tag on.... Everyone at the party now knows your name, where you live, how much money you make and how many times you visit the bathroom.

Oh by the way, you don't even need to be at that party to get or provide that information.... It can be found out globally,..... but AIS is like that tempting invitation to a party which is offering an open bar! [emoji57]

[NorthernMac]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

There are no "Absolutes" in Coastal Navigation.
You use the best tool available for the conditions, verify with something independent and keep testing for fixed and variable errors when the opportunity of using transits arise.

I can see that AIS in a river with many turns .......or entering crowded Singapore /HK waters would be the best tool to use for collision avoidance.

But in concert with Radar PARALLEL INDEXING as a backup to your electronic charts.

Coastal traveling in heavy rains or thick fog removes the opportunity for visual scans, so having the knowledge and confidence to use electronics is what you need to strive for.

Don't be afraid of electronic navigational tools. Learn their weaknesses, study how to prove their accuracy via independent TRUE references and keep checking after every major course change.

I fly ILSs and LPVs down to minimums all day, however when in visual conditions your primary should always been a good set of Mk1 eyeballs.

I’d say all AIS is good is secondary, too many reasons why it might it pick up a target, so I wouldn’t trust it in that regard, it’s more of a bonus, if you have to go zero viz onboard radar and good navigation hardware and software would be the primary IMO.

[Haddock1]

The global privacy issue with AIS B is only when your signal is picked up by a ground station the re-transmitted. When out of sight the signal is only picked up by other vessels with in range of sight of your aerial and not available globally. I think the comparison of the party invitation is a bit OTT. The information transmitted is very limited but I guess Personal Identifiable Information from a GDPR perspective. As a matter of interest I have tried to research what the GDPR rules are on AIS Data and there seems no position on the subject. An AIS transmission could be in breach but assume that given you are transmitting freely it is considered a non breach of the data subjects rights under GDPR. However, the re-transmission of the data by a ground station I would have thought would breach GDPR unless you agree willingly to allow them to use the data. Interesting issue. Any experts on GDPR and AIS out there?

[transmitterdan]

Originally Posted by Haddock1

The global privacy issue with AIS B is only when your signal is picked up by a ground station the re-transmitted. When out of sight the signal is only picked up by other vessels with in range of sight of your aerial and not available globally. I think the comparison of the party invitation is a bit OTT.

This is not correct. On the high seas there are overhead satellites that receive AIS transmissions. Most class A systems are receivable by these satellites. Even some class B signals can be received. So you should assume that AIS can be received pretty much world wide.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automa...ication_system

People who imagine they have some anonymity in the world are delusional. Financial and medical services already have databases containing anything and everything about you. And because those databases were easily hacked over the past decade the “bad guys” already have access to your personal data. So turning off AIS to keep “the man” from knowing who/where you are is futile and simply adds to the potential for collision.

If you think pirates are in the area how in the heck did you end up there in the first place? There are ways to avoid piracy but turning off AIS seems like a poor method IMO.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

This is not correct. On the high seas there are overhead satellites that receive AIS transmissions. Most class A systems are receivable by these satellites. Even some class B signals can be received. So you should assume that AIS can be received pretty much world wide.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automa...ication_system

People who imagine they have some anonymity in the world are delusional. Financial and medical services already have databases containing anything and everything about you. And because those databases were easily hacked over the past decade the “bad guys” already have access to your personal data. So turning off AIS to keep “the man” from knowing who/where you are is futile and simply adds to the potential for collision.

If you think pirates are in the area how in the heck did you end up there in the first place? There are ways to avoid piracy but turning off AIS seems like a poor method IMO.

I would suggest that most if not all Class B transmissions can be received by the satellites.... and if you are willing to pay US$10 a day to marinetraffic.com you have the details on every single one of them.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

......So turning off AIS to keep “the man” from knowing who/where you are is futile and simply adds to the potential for collision.

If you think pirates are in the area how in the heck did you end up there in the first place? There are ways to avoid piracy but turning off AIS seems like a poor method IMO.

I happen to live and cruise in SE Asia.

Like the streets of New York or Chicago, there are some dangerous waters that you must transit.

https://time.com/piracy-southeast-asia-malacca-strait/

It is very common for Indonesian, Malaysian and Filipino Tugs and barges to go dark in certain areas. I have been doing it for years with Super yachts so this is the reality.

90% of the places we enjoy anchoring in are safe and the locals very friendly, but when transiting to or from them, I don't provide a track that can be seen by anyone for $10 a day.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by CapnCrunch

I was not aware of this. Can you elaborate? You are correct. AIS is very useful on the western rivers when communicating with tows. However, I would only use radar on the rivers in foggy conditions which, thankfully, I have yet to encounter.

Just no. Good conditions are an important time to run radar. Even with first rate (thank you US taxpayer) training in imagery interpretation practice is important. What better time to run radar than when you can look out the window to compare what you get from the radar with your Mark I eyeball?

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

This is not correct. On the high seas there are overhead satellites that receive AIS transmissions. Most class A systems are receivable by these satellites. Even some class B signals can be received. So you should assume that AIS can be received pretty much world wide.

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

I would suggest that most if not all Class B transmissions can be received by the satellites.... and if you are willing to pay US$10 a day to marinetraffic.com you have the details on every single one of them.

The words here are true but the robustness is not as implied. Physics is not on your side. The path length is long. There is attenuation. The shortest paths are off the elevation angles of antenna gain. Consider that the VHF payloads on satellites where designed and launched to help ship owners keep track of more or less where their vessels are beyond the range of shore receivers. If a handful of Class A packets get through per day the paying customer is happy. Class B you might get zero to two packets per day. If that's good enough for your needs great. You should not expect the sort of tracking you get from SPOT or InReach or GO! from satellite AIS.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

The words here are true but the robustness is not as implied. Physics is not on your side. The path length is long. There is attenuation. The shortest paths are off the elevation angles of antenna gain. Consider that the VHF payloads on satellites where designed and launched to help ship owners keep track of more or less where their vessels are beyond the range of shore receivers. If a handful of Class A packets get through per day the paying customer is happy. Class B you might get zero to two packets per day. If that's good enough for your needs great. You should not expect the sort of tracking you get from SPOT or InReach or GO! from satellite AIS.

Just had a spin through a group of targets, cargo ships and pleasure craft, in the area that I took the screen grab of earlier....
Most of the cargo ship's positions are less than 15 minutes... pleasure craft up to an hour. Sometimes pleasure craft are up to 12 hours old.....
However...... if you pay for the $10 a day plan - I once took a 14 day free trial - you can see what pretty much every pleasure craft on the planet that is transmiting AIS is up to... 12 hours in a big ocean is neither here nor there... big brother can watch you.. if he so chooses... I'm more worried about old girlfriends and creditors......

[Mike OReilly]

It's not so much the "Big Brothers" that scare me. It's the people who say "I've got nothing to hide, so I don't care if I'm under constant surveillance." This is how liberty and freedom dies -- when people stop even caring.

I have a pretty good sense of the ubiquity of surveillance in our societies. It's everywhere, from the constant tracking of every key stroke here, to the monitoring of your international movements, to the disturbingly cute 'smile, you're on camera' messages that make light of the fact that we are being visually monitored almost everywhere we go.

A basic first step in any authoritarian regime is to erase privacy. Big Brother is a caricature of the real thing. Just ask anyone who lived under actual communist of fascist regimes. Without privacy there can be no freedom; no democracy.

We are all being actively being trained to believe privacy is some quaint idea. And sadly, many of us now believe this lie. But resistance is never futile. Not transmitting AIS signals is one tiny way to hold our privacy ground. And yes, it comes at a price; one I am happy to pay.

[Discovery 15797]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I happen to live and cruise in SE Asia.

Like the streets of New York or Chicago, there are some dangerous waters that you must transit.

https://time.com/piracy-southeast-asia-malacca-strait/

It is very common for Indonesian, Malaysian and Filipino Tugs and barges to go dark in certain areas. I have been doing it for years with Super yachts so this is the reality.

90% of the places we enjoy anchoring in are safe and the locals very friendly, but when transiting to or from them, I don't provide a track that can be seen by anyone for $10 a day.

I also cruise this area since 1990's.

The number of actual 'attacks' on private yachts in SE Asia is infinitesimally small. Also, anyone in these areas who is spending $10 a day to track a vessel are likely not interested in private yachts which are easy targets, but are not likely highly profitable targets.

The waters of the Sulu and Celebes Seas especially around Mindanao are especially dangerous primarily due to Abu Sayaff activities, and the Philippine Navy has issued multiple warnings.

The article you cite is from 2014 and the targets were primarily cargo ships; not private boats.

In fact, the majority of confrontational (sometimes armed) 'piracy' on private boats in the past 4-5 years has been in the Caribbean and South American waters.

Also, the majority of 'pirate incidents' in SE Asia are typically petty burglaries and opportunistic crime; not confrontational. There are a greater number of these incidents in the South Pacific than SE Asia. But, statistically there are a greater number of private boats in SoPac compared to SEA.

Indonesia, Thailand, and other countries are now requiring ALL vessels to transmit AIS info. Failure could result in heavy fines and possible detainment. I suspect Vietnam will also require AIS as well as it opens it's waters.

Also, with Chinese incursion and increased tensions between China and Vietnam and China and Philippines private vessels may come under greater scrutiny in very specific areas of geo-political disagreements.