Shutting down AIS

[tony.keel]

Sorry, I entered this in the wrong post. I don't know how to delete a post. Thank you. Tony.

Originally Posted by tony.keel

That was an excellent video animation and if the facts are correct, a good explanation of events. Also some really good comments by the group.
I agree with those that said the recommendations were lame and not specific enough. As one example, the transmission from one vessel to the terminal traffic advisory makes a vague passive statement not requiring a response, something like 'we have not received information on (the other vessel)'. A better transmission to the terminal traffic advisor would be 'Say the position, course and speed of the (other vessel). This transmission requires a response and the response should contain useful information to prevent a collision.
I am not familiar with regulations governing big ship communications around large ports, but I have listened to it. It seems rather non-structured and informal compared to aviation communication which I am familiar with. I know this may be because of the high speed and low visibility involved with aircraft, but large ships are slow to change course so it seems it is too late to turn too often. Having accurate information from all available sources is beneficial in bringing to light preconceived beliefs such as 'that light is a stationary object'. It allows cross-checking of information sources to resolve any ambiguities or human misconceptions. What's more, there is plenty of time to use all available sources of information on a ship. While there are many elements in the accident chain, my suggestion would be step up the game when it comes to radio communications.

[NorthernMac]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

Perhaps my AIS is different. Mine has entries for:

MMSI number
Name of vessel
Country of origin
Call sign
Vessel type

And the first 4 have ZERO reason to even be on there, it provides ZERO safety to broadcast individual identifying information

Originally Posted by Discovery 15797

You can easily look up exactly what information is contained in an AIS message.

Existing AIS messages do not contain any personal or 'individually identifiable data' that is not in the public domain other than boat location, speed, direction, etc. (which is not personal data).

But, maybe you have some unique AIS signal that does contain your personal information that I'm not familiar with. But, don't be concerned because if you do...base stations and other commercial AIS devices cannot interpret those messages that your unique AIS transmits.

Again ZERO reason to transmit anything that individually IDs me or my ship, there is zero valid safety reason for it.

[transmitterdan]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Nope. Solid bypass of microphones on most laptops is easy. TRRS plug with a 15k ohm resister between ring 2 and sleeve. Same with your phone or tablet.

Many laptops and tablets have no TRRS plug. iPads and iPhones don’t have them anymore. Some laptops only have Bluetooth sound systems and no physical connection is possible at all. Almost all laptops and tablets have an inbuilt microphone which cannot be disabled with hardware these days.

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by NorthernMac

Again ZERO reason to transmit anything that individually IDs me or my ship, there is zero valid safety reason for it.

There's strong reason to transmit a ship identifier from one broadcast to the next - in order to calculate CPA/TCPA and related data from the collection of broadcasts. So each ship that is broadcasting in an area has to broadcast some identifying information. And once it does, well, its all too easy to associate that identifier with some real world information. If you just received random broadcasts of position/heading/speed you wouldn't be able to correlate one broadcast to the next, and that significantly reduces their effectiveness.

I'm a strong proponent of AIS, I find it very useful. On the plus side, someone asked above about quantifiable reductions. 2005 was the latest that most "ships" could install operational AIS. The chart below is from the marine insurance industry:



There's a pretty strong trend in collision/contact total losses since 2005, but we can only infer this has anything to do with AIS, and unfortunately the presented data does not go back to pre-AIS periods.

There's one data point out of Malaysia (that is quite old):

The installation of the automatic identification system (AIS) in small boats of less than 15 tonnes has helped reduce the accident rate in the high traffic waters of the Straits of Malacca, said Malaysian Marine Department (MMD) Maritime Director-General Datuk Ahmad Othman.

The system works by broadcasting information on a ship to other vessels via radio or satellite links. It can tell the ship's current position, course and speed, allowing it to be tracked by other vessels and maritime authorities.

"The drop in accident rates is due to improved monitoring systems as we are installing the AIS in small boats. With the AIS we can start to track small boats and minimise accidents," he said today. ...

Kong said 102 accidents were reported to the MMD in 2010, 85 cases in 2011 and 40 in 2012.

Of course, then there's the dark side and all the uses for AIS data that were probably never considered during early development:

Detecting suspicious activities at sea based on anomalies in Automatic Identification Systems transmissions

Somehow I'd guess that some of my own activities would trigger the "suspicious" response in this model.

And AIS data is being used to enforce speed limits in migratory whale waters (sometimes out of site of land or land base stations), another use that is probably outside the original scope. Whether that's a good thing or not....

Unfortunately for me I can clearly see both sides of this argument

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by NorthernMac

And the first 4 have ZERO reason to even be on there, it provides ZERO safety to broadcast individual identifying information

Again ZERO reason to transmit anything that individually IDs me or my ship, there is zero valid safety reason for it.

So when I see a ship on the horizon at night and it looks like he’s bearing down on me, I might want to call on VHF but who do I call? “Hey, that ship over there”? (Vessel name/call sign)

And if it’s a Chinese vessel and there is limited likelihood that the person on watch speaks much English it may be nice to know why they are not answering (country of origin)

Then the ship pumps 5000 gallons of oily bilge water into your pristine environment and you want to report him but have no idea who he is. Authorities are unlikely to respond to “It was a black ship with a red/white striped funnel”. Which you probably wouldn’t be able to provide if event happens at night (MMSI number).

But you probably believe that you can easily get out of the way of a 28000 ton vessel coming at you at 24kn or that ships flagged in Monrovia but actually work out of Indonesia would never pump oily bilge water into the sea.

So you give up the advantage of all this info because you believe that for some perverse reason the crew on the ship is going to come and hunt you down to steal your identity that you’re actually not even divulging. Or maybe someone in a city somewhere with a smartphone is going to steal totally harmless/useless information about your vessel (not even about you).

Sheesh!!

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

So when I see a ship on the horizon at night and it looks like he’s bearing down on me, I might want to call on VHF but who do I call? “Hey, that ship over there”? (Vessel name/call sign)

And if it’s a Chinese vessel and there is limited likelihood that the person on watch speaks much English it may be nice to know why they are not answering (country of origin)

Then the ship pumps 5000 gallons of oily bilge water into your pristine environment and you want to report him but have no idea who he is. Authorities are unlikely to respond to “It was a black ship with a red/white striped funnel”. Which you probably wouldn’t be able to provide if event happens at night (MMSI number).

But you probably believe that you can easily get out of the way of a 28000 ton vessel coming at you at 24kn or that ships flagged in Monrovia but actually work out of Indonesia would never pump oily bilge water into the sea.

So you give up the advantage of all this info because you believe that for some perverse reason the crew on the ship is going to come and hunt you down to steal your identity that you’re actually not even divulging. Or maybe someone in a city somewhere with a smartphone is going to steal totally harmless/useless information about your vessel (not even about you).

Sheesh!!

Hi Cassidy
There's more than one way to skin s cat .... (or should I say sheep[emoji2] [emoji2] )

AIS is great for the scenarios you described plus entering congested ports like Singapore or HK and I have a Vesper 8000 for exactly that.

But in Asia, when no traffic is concerning me via my Radar Plotting.... I simply turn AIS off and only turn on when necessary!

Trying to sail incognito is a good thing !

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

Many laptops and tablets have no TRRS plug. iPads and iPhones don’t have them anymore. Some laptops only have Bluetooth sound systems and no physical connection is possible at all. Almost all laptops and tablets have an inbuilt microphone which cannot be disabled with hardware these days.

I've yet to see a laptop without a TRRS. Apple blew off the jack for a dongle for the last four generations but the bypass is still there with the (stupid) dongle. I'm less familiar with Android but I have not encountered one without a jack.

[Discovery 15797]

Originally Posted by NorthernMac

And the first 4 have ZERO reason to even be on there, it provides ZERO safety to broadcast individual identifying information

Again ZERO reason to transmit anything that individually IDs me or my ship, there is zero valid safety reason for it.

I wonder if you are just being contrarian, or if you are just plain ignorant, narcissistic, or paranoid?

If you read my initial response to this thread you might have comprehended at least ONE VALID safety reason to broadcast that info. I'll assume you didn't read it so I'll summarize...

When I lost my forestay between ConUS and Hawaii I made a Pan-Pan call to USCG. They wanted my MMSI to track me via AIS rather than satellite info. As I made my way 950 nm back to SF the USCG tracked my AIS and also notified ships in the area with that exact information that you claim has no valid safety reason.

But, you continue to operate your vessel as you see fit, and I wish you fair seas.

[Discovery 15797]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

But in Asia, when no traffic is concerning me via my Radar Plotting.... I simply turn AIS off and only turn on when necessary!

Hi Pelagic, I thought about this a bit more and understand your concerns in certain areas of your backyard and agree it makes sense.

Anyway...my thought regarding piracy...if I am sailing along in open water, and an AIS target suddenly appears less than 5 nm or so, and sends out a distress call...I would question whether that call is a trap to lure me into a bad situation, or an actual distress call. My first instinct would be to assume it's some sort of trap and steer clear.

The International Convention on Salvage (which replaced the Brussels Convention) and US Code 46 requires every vessel master respond to emergencies on the seas unless it endangers his vessel or person's on it. A mysterious AIS target suddenly appearing in areas of piracy could reasonably assumed to be a trap do lure in victims.

So, the whole "piracy" thing could work both ways...

Also, as an FYI when I am operating coastal >25 miles offshore and offshore I now log every vessel that appears on AIS for safety reasons...if I need to make an emergency call, I know which ships are in the vicinity.

Might be a good conversation over a finger or two of scotch if our paths cross.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

Perhaps my AIS is different. Mine has entries for:

MMSI number
Name of vessel
Country of origin
Call sign
Vessel type

Originally Posted by NorthernMac

And the first 4 have ZERO reason to even be on there, it provides ZERO safety to broadcast individual identifying information

Originally Posted by Discovery 15797

I wonder if you are just being contrarian, or if you are just plain ignorant, narcissistic, or paranoid?

While I don't see any reason for name-calling NorthernMac is ill-informed or at least not thoughtful.

MMSI number is the data that connects AIS dynamic data and AIS static data. The entire system breaks down without it.

Without ship name how do you call them on the radio?

Lots of static data including size, vessel type, and flag help you be sure the ship you are looking at through the binoculars is the one you are following with electronics.

Either call sign or MMSI will help you look up the ship in the phone book to call on INMARSAT C.

Worth noting that Class A AIS has a lot more identifying information (every bit of which is helpful) than Class B or B+.

[NorthernMac]

Originally Posted by Discovery 15797

I wonder if you are just being contrarian, or if you are just plain ignorant, narcissistic, or paranoid?

If you read my initial response to this thread you might have comprehended at least ONE VALID safety reason to broadcast that info. I'll assume you didn't read it so I'll summarize...

When I lost my forestay between ConUS and Hawaii I made a Pan-Pan call to USCG. They wanted my MMSI to track me via AIS rather than satellite info. As I made my way 950 nm back to SF the USCG tracked my AIS and also notified ships in the area with that exact information that you claim has no valid safety reason.

But, you continue to operate your vessel as you see fit, and I wish you fair seas.

Just someone who’s lived life a little bit and studied on 20th and current history.

Again, with AIS and your call with your general location, that’s all you need to request being tracked or like yourself to a blip on the screen.

Originally Posted by Auspicious

While I don't see any reason for name-calling NorthernMac is ill-informed or at least not thoughtful.

MMSI number is the data that connects AIS dynamic data and AIS static data. The entire system breaks down without it.

Without ship name how do you call them on the radio?

Lots of static data including size, vessel type, and flag help you be sure the ship you are looking at through the binoculars is the one you are following with electronics.

Either call sign or MMSI will help you look up the ship in the phone book to call on INMARSAT C.

Worth noting that Class A AIS has a lot more identifying information (every bit of which is helpful) than Class B or B+.

You made a distress call and didn’t know where you were? With just a target, type and general location that should be all you need to find the ship, unless you fire off a mayday in the middle of a regatta or something, plus you always have epirbs spots etc

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by NorthernMac

You made a distress call and didn’t know where you were? With just a target, type and general location that should be all you need to find the ship, unless you fire off a mayday in the middle of a regatta or something, plus you always have epirbs spots etc

Your response makes no sense. We aren't talking about distress. We're talking about situational awareness and collision avoidance.

[NorthernMac]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Your response makes no sense. We aren't talking about distress. We're talking about situational awareness and collision avoidance.

And you need their individual information to not hit them?

All I need is a target and bonus points for their course and speed.

The vessel name, unique ID, hailing port, there are zero safety reasons for that

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by NorthernMac

...The vessel name ...

When sailing in moderately congested waters, and you want to clarify, via radio, a crossing situation having the vessel name is quite useful. I have both hailed, and been hailed by name when the AIS shows an interesting crossing. In all cases it has helped to clarify both vessels' intentions.

Could you do the same without a name? Sure, and the less crowded the waters the easier it is - "hey, sailboat in front of me..." works when there is only one sailboat in view. But when there are many, and either AIS or radar or visual observation suggests a radio call having the name makes it a whole lot easier. Can't count the number of calls I've heard on the order of "sailboat crossing in front of XXX..." with no response. But when you know the vessel name it all becomes a lot easier.

[NorthernMac]

Originally Posted by Discovery 15797

I also cruise this area since 1990's.

The number of actual 'attacks' on private yachts in SE Asia is infinitesimally small. Also, anyone in these areas who is spending $10 a day to track a vessel are likely not interested in private yachts which are easy targets, but are not likely highly profitable targets.

The waters of the Sulu and Celebes Seas especially around Mindanao are especially dangerous primarily due to Abu Sayaff activities, and the Philippine Navy has issued multiple warnings.

The article you cite is from 2014 and the targets were primarily cargo ships; not private boats.

In fact, the majority of confrontational (sometimes armed) 'piracy' on private boats in the past 4-5 years has been in the Caribbean and South American waters.

Also, the majority of 'pirate incidents' in SE Asia are typically petty burglaries and opportunistic crime; not confrontational. There are a greater number of these incidents in the South Pacific than SE Asia. But, statistically there are a greater number of private boats in SoPac compared to SEA.

Indonesia, Thailand, and other countries are now requiring ALL vessels to transmit AIS info. Failure could result in heavy fines and possible detainment. I suspect Vietnam will also require AIS as well as it opens it's waters.

Also, with Chinese incursion and increased tensions between China and Vietnam and China and Philippines private vessels may come under greater scrutiny in very specific areas of geo-political disagreements.

A petty burglary is what it’s called when luckily no one is home, when someone ends up being home it’s called a home invasion.


Aside from the obvious really bad track record of how government treats citizens, as someone who had a attempted home invasion once, I just don’t like prying whatever chinks in my armor further open. Trust but verify, walk softly but carry a big stick and all that.