Tax Avoidance

[OnTour]

California must check. My boat has a hailing port of San Diego , even though the boat has never been there and was purchased in Florida, I get bills for California taxes.

[OnTour]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

I'm pretty sure use tax (same rate as sales tax) will still be due if you were a Florida resident at the time of purchase, even if you keep it out of the state for six months. I would have to do more research to be sure on this, but here is one Florida publication on the sales/use tax thing. Here is another article on this subject.

That's what I figured but haven't been able to get a real answer on this.

[Kettlewell]

California is notorious for chasing folks for taxes, even after they've left the state for years. A lot of states scan the documentation roles now and send out tax notices to the address on the document. Keep that in mind when you choose your address and your hailing port. I have a feeling it won't be long before they require us to purchase and hang a license plate on our boats.

[jeremiason]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

I'm pretty sure use tax (same rate as sales tax) will still be due if you were a Florida resident at the time of purchase, even if you keep it out of the state for six months. I would have to do more research to be sure on this, but here is one Florida publication on the sales/use tax thing. Here is another article on this subject.

The short answer is yes... You would be subject to a 6% tax to a maximum of $18,000.

Florida will also tax you the difference, if you paid sales tax in another state that was less than Florida's current Tax Rate.

Here is a link about Florida Boat Tax

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by OnTour

If I live in Florida and purchase a boat in a state with no sales tax, keep it there for 6 months, and then bring it to Florida, will I have to pay sales tax when I register it in Florida?

If you own AND USE the boat in another state for more than 6 months, then Florida use tax will not be due.

The "and use" is an important part. There have been cases in the past where people bought a boat and just let it sit, then brought it to Florida, and the state went after the tax. What the law says is that use tax is due on boats that were bought "for use" in Florida. If you can't present evidence to show that you didn't just buy the boat to use in Florida, the state may require you to pay tax.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

It's probably one of those things they don't check very carefully, but it is the law. Myself, I like to follow the letter of the law...

Ah, but how can you follow the letter of the law, when "the law" according to the Coast Guard refers to a non-existent document once, but no longer, published by a different federal bureaucracy? And how can the Coast Guard check?

Obviously, this is one of those cases where it is impossible to follow the letter of the law. No wonder they don't check!

[s/v Beth]

What is not a real document? I hold a Certificate of Documentation in my hand. I get a new one every year from the USCG. Oregon does not charge any sales tax, but they do require a registration fee, about 120 USD a year for my boat. I get a registration form and stickers for the boat to show its legal. What is a non extant document? BTW the train comes down to Portland (from BC)

[susswein]

In some states (such as colorado) boats are registered through the state parks dept, and do not require a title. All states offer reciprocity for up to 60 days. Marinas in Mexico requireregistration of some sort, so even though my boat hasn't been in the Colorado (or anywhere in the US) since I bought it I just pay the $35/year to keep it registered.

[Kettlewell]

If you own AND USE the boat in another state for more than 6 months, then Florida use tax will not be due.

Not true if you were a Florida resident when you bought the boat--the use tax would still be due.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Not true if you were a Florida resident when you bought the boat--the use tax would still be due.

I'm not certain that's true. The full text of 212.06, section 8, paragraph a is...

"(8)(a) Use tax will apply and be due on tangible personal property imported or caused to be imported into this state for use, consumption, distribution, or storage to be used or consumed in this state; provided, however, that, except as provided in paragraph (b), it shall be presumed that tangible personal property used in another state, territory of the United States, or the District of Columbia for 6 months or longer before being imported into this state was not purchased for use in this state. The rental or lease of tangible personal property which is used or stored in this state shall be taxable without regard to its prior use or tax paid on purchase outside this state."

It doesn't say anything about the 6 month exception being only for non-residents. It references paragraph b, but that only talks about commercial fishing operations. I read through most of 212.06 and couldn't find anything to indicate that the 6 month exception would not apply to residents.

On the other hand, the abbreviated instructions published by the FWC do say that use tax "may" be due if you are a resident. The implication being that the 6 month exception does not apply to residents, but the wording is a little ambiguous.

If I called Florida my residence, but lived part of the year elsewhere, and owned and used a boat there for more than 6 months, and then decided to bring it to Florida permanently, I would consult an attorney and at least consider the possibility of going to court if they tried to make me pay a use tax. (Assuming, of course, that I hadn't already paid more than 6% sales/use tax in the other state.)

It is a bit like the whole issue surrounding the choosing of a hailing port. One department of government seems to be directly contradictory to another. Though, in this case I think the wording of the statute clearly overrides a summary publication. In any case, once again, ain't bureaucracy grand!

[Captain Grandpa]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Probably it means they don't check and won't care - until something happens that makes them need to check and care. and then they shoot you.

There are few things as dangerous as rarely enforced laws

[TheTeelSea]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

I'm not certain that's true. The full text of 212.06, section 8, paragraph a is...

"(8)(a) Use tax will apply and be due on tangible personal property imported or caused to be imported into this state for use, consumption, distribution, or storage to be used or consumed in this state; provided, however, that, except as provided in paragraph (b), it shall be presumed that tangible personal property used in another state, territory of the United States, or the District of Columbia for 6 months or longer before being imported into this state was not purchased for use in this state. The rental or lease of tangible personal property which is used or stored in this state shall be taxable without regard to its prior use or tax paid on purchase outside this state."

It doesn't say anything about the 6 month exception being only for non-residents. It references paragraph b, but that only talks about commercial fishing operations. I read through most of 212.06 and couldn't find anything to indicate that the 6 month exception would not apply to residents.

On the other hand, the abbreviated instructions published by the FWC do say that use tax "may" be due if you are a resident. The implication being that the 6 month exception does not apply to residents, but the wording is a little ambiguous.

If I called Florida my residence, but lived part of the year elsewhere, and owned and used a boat there for more than 6 months, and then decided to bring it to Florida permanently, I would consult an attorney and at least consider the possibility of going to court if they tried to make me pay a use tax. (Assuming, of course, that I hadn't already paid more than 6% sales/use tax in the other state.)

It is a bit like the whole issue surrounding the choosing of a hailing port. One department of government seems to be directly contradictory to another. Though, in this case I think the wording of the statute clearly overrides a summary publication. In any case, once again, ain't bureaucracy grand!

Here is my take on this one;

(8)(a) Use tax- will apply and be due on tangible personal property imported or caused to be imported into this state for (your) use, by consumption (take ownership), distribution (resale), or storage (Hold until/inventory) to be used or consumed in this state; provided (where it resides now) ,

_However; that, except as provided in paragraph (b), it shall be presumed that tangible personal property (ownership) used in another state, territory of the United States, or the District of Columbia for 6 months or longer(out of state) before being imported into this state was not purchased for use in this state.(I flew into FLA to just pick up a boat to sail it back to my home port NY). NOW! The rental or lease (Taking position of property $$ ie..close the deal) of tangible personal property which is used or stored in this state(less then 6mo.) shall be taxable without regard to its prior use or tax paid on purchase outside this state.

This is what I believe this is saying here. If I were to buy a boat from BVI for 1 mill the boat builder is responsible for all taxes or VAT taxes to their domain. I tell the boat company I will take delivery in Palm Beach, Florida on Wednesday the 13th of February,2001 I have already paid the builder 50% down there in BVI, and amount due is the final 50% upon taking delivery in Florida. The Florida State Clock Starts from the time all papers and monies have completed the transaction and recorded from customs. IF, I keep the vessel in or around the state of Florida longer then the 6 month grace period for a non residents. The state can come to you for the taxes due and penalties of 100% valued, if warranted by the state.
I hope this helps the understanding. Of course, you could say! Hay, I was gone but burden of proof will fall on you. Remember this is America; Where you are guilty.. Till proven innocent.. Best to be above board, on-deck, man the wheel and pay what you owe. Life is too dam short..

Best Regards, .. Richard

[denverd0n]

I'm a little confused by your posting, Richard.

If you are a non-resident of Florida (the case in your example, I believe), buy the boat in Florida, and then move it out of the state within 90 days (or 180 days if you request an extension), you will not owe any sales or use tax at that time. If you buy the boat in Florida, and do not move it out of the state in time, clearly you will owe the sales tax. For purposes of the tax, the fact that you arranged the deal elsewhere, and only had it delivered to you in Florida, doesn't matter. Florida will consider the boat to have been "bought" here.

The case we were talking about, though, is someone who has already bought the boat elsewhere, and then brings it to Florida more than 6 months later. If you own and use the boat in another state (not another country) for more than 6 months, as a non-resident of Florida, you definitely do not owe use tax when you bring the boat to Florida. That is clear. Does not matter if you paid any sales or use tax on it already, or how much tax you might have paid.

The question is, if you claim Florida as your residence, but spend time in another state, and own and use a boat in that other state, then do you have to pay Florida use tax when you eventually bring your boat to Florida? There is an apparent contradiction between the statute quoted above and the publication put out by the Florida Dept. of Revenue. The statute says nothing about the 6 months exception being only for non-residents, but the DOR publication implies that it is.

Clearly a statute over-rides anything in a summary publication. Hence, my contention is that the 6 months exception also applies to residents of Florida, assuming they meet all of the other requirements. Unless someone can point me to a statute that says the exception does not apply to residents, I'm sticking with that belief.

Though, as always, internet legal advice is worth exactly what you pay for it--NOTHING!

[TheTeelSea]

[QUOTE=denverd0n;1145472]I'm a little confused by your posting, Richard.

Sorry for the confusion here. I will try and review and answer as you tell the story! Remember though, each state has its own idea's of interpretation of LAW.

If you are a non-resident of Florida (the case in your example, I believe), buy the boat in Florida, and then move it out of the state within 90 days (or 180 days if you request an extension), you will not owe any sales or use tax at that time. If you buy the boat in Florida, and do not move it out of the state in time, clearly you will owe the sales tax. For purposes of the tax, the fact that you arranged the deal elsewhere, and only had it delivered to you in Florida, doesn't matter. Florida will consider the boat to have been "bought" here.

The term they will use is "Taking Documented Delivered and Ownership Of.." or FOB documented destination and not the transitional destinations by the seller's. Please read on.

The case we were talking about, though, is someone who has already bought the boat elsewhere, and then brings it to Florida more than 6 months later. If you own and use the boat in another state (not another country) for more than 6 months, as a non-resident of Florida, you definitely do not owe use tax when you bring the boat to Florida. That is clear. Does not matter if you paid any sales or use tax on it already, or how much tax you might have paid.

Burden of proof, then falls to the state to prove that; you have stayed longer then the local and state allows for transitional cruising. You just kick it back to them and say "No! I'm was in Transit only! However, If they have any documented proof, Like harbor police log's or the "famous locals" that report you and take pictures. Then YES! you will pay them.

SORRY! have to go but will finish soon... Richard

[denverd0n]

But I don't think we were talking about someone who is passing through. We're talking about someone who bought and used a boat in another state. Then decides to move the boat to Florida, to keep it there. Do they owe use tax? The answer is "no," if they used it for more than six months in the other state before they moved it to Florida.