Thoughts about this

[wyb2]

I’ve always felt the port/starboard tack aspect of the rules was a little unintuitive. One’s brain can pretty automatically process which side of another boat you are looking at, or if that boat is upwind or downwind of you. But knowing which tack they are on takes an extra mental step. No, it’s not hard, and I understand it’s second nature for people that have sailing in their blood. But it is a step, and under even mild stress or confusion the human mind can make extremely simple mistakes.

I think this is a good example of what I mean by unintuitive: on a forum all about boats and sailing, there is disagreement about the state of boat B.

When in doubt, I prefer to just give way earlier rather than later. In this case I probably would have said to myself “that spinnaker looks like it might be a handful, and it might be impacting his visibility. I’m going to turn up and luff for a bit and let him pass.”

If I’ve misread the situation and I’m the stand on vessel in this situation, the captain of boat B can shake his head at me, that’s fine. Then again, maybe I should be the one shaking my head because he didn’t adjust course early enough? Either way, he doesn’t have any reason to adjust course towards me while I’m pinching and luffing and making almost no headway.

[psk125]

The drawing and description of the scene don't make it clear which tack boat B is on. Boat A is on port tack. If boat B is also on port tack, they must keep clear of A because 1/A is to leeward of them and 2/A is close-hauled. If boat B is on starboard tack, then boat A (on port) must keep clear. The tack a boat is on is not determined by which side the pole is on, but by which side the main boom is on.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by psk125

The drawing and description of the scene don't make it clear which tack boat B is on. Boat A is on port tack. If boat B is also on port tack, they must keep clear of A because 1/A is to leeward of them and 2/A is close-hauled. If boat B is on starboard tack, then boat A (on port) must keep clear. The tack a boat is on is not determined by which side the pole is on, but by which side the main boom is on.

Fortunately for the OP, the rules are quite clear:

12(a)(iii) if a vessel with the wind on the port side sees a vessel to windward and cannot determine with certainty whether the other vessel has the wind on the port or on the starboard side, she shall keep out of the way of the other.

[SaylorMade]

Originally Posted by SailorJoJo

Thank you for thoughts.



I should probably have gybed earlier. The thing was that because we were far out on open ocean, and we weren't initially on collison course. I think he headed towards me just because he wanted to say hello.

He wasn't angry or anything when he gave way and it was basically a misunderstanding.
I'm pretty new to sailing but have been boating my whole life. So I thought it was a good idea to get some opinions so I can make a better choice next time.


Comments about that I shouldn't go out on the water because of my "attitude" is very strange to me.
My attitude is trying to learn so I'm better prepared for similar situations again.

Excuse me, but you literally wrote in your first post that you should have given way, but decided not to. You could have put the nose down in ample time for give way or other needed actions.


"I should have given way to vessel B, but my full keel motorsailer wasn't even close to being able to go upwind enough to turn to port."


That made me make that comment. Now if you want to change what really happened, it's fine, but if not, I stand by my comment if your original post is correct.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by SailorJoJo

[...] I should have given way to vessel B, but my full keel motorsailer wasn't even close to being able to go upwind enough to turn to port.

Even with good wind I generally can't tack without using the motor to turn it around.

And I had some issues with my motor yesterday so I couldn't get it to start.

Interesting question. Thanks for asking.

The COLREGs impose an implicit requirement upon all vessels to be able to maneuver. There are exceptions for vessels unable to maneuver by the nature of their work (dredging, divers down, etc) -- which COLREGs classifies as "restricted in their ability to maneuver" -- and vessels facing exceptional circumstances such as a mechanical failure, medical emergency, or whatever ("not under command").

A question for you to consider is whether your vessel, given its characteristics and performance under sail, is seaworthy without an operable motor.

I would agree with those other posters who stated that the best thing to do in the moment would have been to perform a gybe as soon as it was clear that a maneuver was necessary. Another choice would have been to turn into the wind (or ease the sheets) and let the sails luff until the other boat passed.

Finally, though you may have already tried this, it may be possible to better balance or trim the sails so as to make the boat easier to tack.

[Jammer]

Moderator Hat On

COLREGs discussions on Cruisers Forum have a history of becoming divisive, reflecting the widely varying attitudes and experience levels of forum participants.

Please be respectful of other posters, particularly those who ask questions or otherwise approach the topic with openness, humility, and a willingness to learn.

Finally, please think twice before posting humor or sarcasm. That can lead to misunderstandings, and there are many participants who see this topic as one too important to sell out for an easy laugh.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Moderator Hat On

COLREGs discussions on Cruisers Forum have a history of becoming divisive, reflecting the widely varying attitudes and experience levels of forum participants.

Please be respectful of other posters, particularly those who ask questions or otherwise approach the topic with openness, humility, and a willingness to learn.

Finally, please think twice before posting humor or sarcasm. That can lead to misunderstandings, and there are many participants who see this topic as one too important to sell out for an easy laugh.

Thank you.

It is not acceptable to jump on someone asking for help and education, especially something as complex as the COLREGS.

Insulting them is not acceptable. Period.

People could see these rude, insulting responses and not post questions out of fear of being ridiculed causing them to miss out on an education opportunity for them and OTHERS.

From reading COLREGS conversations, there seems to be only a small number of people on CF who know the regulations front and back. The rest of us should take these discussions as a learning exercise that does not revert to rudeness and insult which is NOT conductive to education or civil discourse.

Later,
Dan

[5BTM]

In that case, B gets part of the blame. THe stand on vessel should maintain speed and course. Any changes should be substantial and clear to the stand off vesssel.

Wandering about to say " hello" is boy scout stuff.

We all have our comfort zones on open water mine s about 2 miles miles.

I noticed little boats like to get close and cozy.

[carstenb]

The fast way to cire would have neen to let all you sheets loose and let your sails fly. Your boat would have stopped and you would have been lying ahull

The orjer vessel could then have proceeded on his way

[TrentePieds]

I have nothing to add to what other "old hands" have said in regard to the COLREGS and what you should have done. But I commend you for making a clean breast of your part in the "confusion". That, after all, is an excellent way to learn! :-)

But Calif.Ted asks: "Why can't you tack? "

Indeed, why can't you? Your boat, while "pleasantly plump", has a quite acceptable SA/D ratio for blowy places like the Norwegian Sea off Haugesund. She's ketch rigged, is she not? Is it possible that you have fallen prey to the modern convention of carrying, say, a deck-weeping 150% genoa? Is it possible that you tend to "pinch" 'er?

Given your hull configuration, I would think that to go about easily you would have to fall 'er off quite a bit to get her "footing" before you initiate your turn. If you do that, and you hold the jib to weather for a moment or two after she backwinds so as to help to drive the boat's head through the eye of the wind, you should have no problem going about. Speed through the water, and timing by the crew handling the sheets, is everything in a boat like this.

What I do, if I doubt that I can go about briskly, is wear. You should probably practise doing that. I don't need to tell you, I'm sure, that you need to be very, very careful when wearing that you don't have an accidental gybe. In a ketch, wearing requires a slow, very deliberate approach because you have two booms to control. But the wear is a tool that every seafaring man should have in his kit :-)

Hei på deg :-)!

TrentePieds

[Wotname]

^^

TrentePieds beat me to it so I can do nothing more that to endorse the totality of his post and commend it to the OP.

[SailorJoJo]

I'm a little bit surprised about the insulting nature of some of the comments. At the same time, I asked for people's thoughts, so I'm not gonna complain about it.



The positive thing with all the different replies is that it really made me think about what actually happened.

What stressed me out is that this was a 50-60 foot vessel that changed course towards me several times over about an hour. I can only speculate as why he did that. As he finally turned to starboard I was down in the engine room trying to get the motor running. But this german guy was just waving and smiling.


Anyways.
It was a very strange and unique situation. But because of no motor, to little wind to tack and him changing course towards me, it created a situation that I experienced as very confusing.
The german guy seemed super happy and tried to talk as he was going past me, but I had my head in the engine room. So that's about it.
A misunderstanding or whatever it was, it all turned out well. I'm not saying I handled it well or anything like that, just trying to learn so I'll make better decisions next time.


Peace

[bensolomon]

It does seem like the other boat was coming to say, "Hello.". That would definitely create a confusing situation.

You're doing the right thing asking for opinions in real world situations. My experience is that not every mariner knows the Colregs, so don't be too hard on yourself.

It does seem that you have identified some areas of opportunity for improvement, specifically, your ability to tack without firing up the engine. That might be something to focus on in the coming weeks from a safety perspective.

Best of luck, and make sure you take time out to enjoy sailing.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by SailorJoJo

Yesterday I had this situation where I was vessel A.

I should have given way to vessel B, but my full keel motorsailer wasn't even close to being able to go upwind enough to turn to port.

Even with good wind I generally can't tack without using the motor to turn it around.

And I had some issues with my motor yesterday so I couldn't get it to start.



What's the best thing to do here?

It was kind of ridiculious as we were out in open ocean and he tried to make a point by waiting as long as possible before turning to starboard.

Thoughts?

Wear about plenty early before the crossing situation becomes a potential collision.

Release the sails and stop until other vessel passes.

Sheet the jib to weather so you heave to early and let them pass.

Hail on VHF & discuss. Assuming you have a common language.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by ChrisJHC

….

And, on a flippant note, thrown out a fishing rod and put up a dayshape so that he had to avoid you

Doesn’t work that way, that kind of fishing is specifically excluded in the COLREGS.


Rule 3 - General Definitions
(d) The term "vessel engaged in fishing" means any vessel fishing with nets, lines, trawls, or other fishing apparatus which restrict maneuverability, but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restrict maneuverability.

https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/navigati...lgamated#rule3