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SailorJoJo · 12-07-2023, 22:42

Yesterday I had this situation where I was vessel A.

I should have given way to vessel B, but my full keel motorsailer wasn't even close to being able to go upwind enough to turn to port.

Even with good wind I generally can't tack without using the motor to turn it around.

And I had some issues with my motor yesterday so I couldn't get it to start.

What's the best thing to do here?

It was kind of ridiculious as we were out in open ocean and he tried to make a point by waiting as long as possible before turning to starboard.

Thoughts?

ChrisJHC · 12-07-2023, 22:53

Depends how far away you were / how much time you had.

With enough time and room, you could have turned to starboard, crossed his bow well ahead of him then turned back to your previous course.

Alternatively, turned to port as much as you could, even if that meant losing speed and/or going into irons. Once he’s past, resumed your previous course.

Got on the radio and let him know your situation? Asked him to avoid you?

And, on a flippant note, thrown out a fishing rod and put up a dayshape so that he had to avoid you

**carstenb** · 12-07-2023, 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by SailorJoJo

Yesterday I had this situation where I was vessel A.

I should have given way to vessel B, but my full keel motorsailer wasn't even close to being able to go upwind enough to turn to port.

Even with good wind I generally can't tack without using the motor to turn it around.

And I had some issues with my motor yesterday so I couldn't get it to start.

What's the best thing to do here?

It was kind of ridiculious as we were out in open ocean and he tried to make a point by waiting as long as possible before turning to starboard.

Thoughts?

Although the drawing looks like B has the wind coming over the port side, the real situation must have been different. If his wind was coming over the port side - he is the give way vessel

Assuming he has a starboard wind, as you say - then you are give way and you should have reacted much earlier (especially considering that by your won admission, you are unable to tack). Had you turned downwind at a really early stage, there would have been no issue. Alternatively, you could have hove to or dropped your sails.

Since he is flying a kite and has a starboard wind, he would have had a difficult time doing what he should have done and turned to port, almost certainly causing a crash gybe (never ever turn behind a boat that is give way - since you never know if the give way vessel will suddenly decide to honor its give way status and then you will have a collision).

The fault here is clearly yours, by not reacting and giving way early enough since by your own admission, your boat was not able to maneuver easily.

Rucksta · 12-07-2023, 23:55

B has symmetrical spinnaker poled to port, main will be to starboard.
B is on port tack, as is A.
A is to leeward.
Leeward is the stand on vessel.

Distance, CPA, is not the determining factor.
Stand on vessel must give other vessel room to maneuver.

If B was able to turn to starboard then he had sufficient room.
I would call "Lee-Oh" and take B by the bow..

If B wanted to be a dick a quick gybe would make him the stand on vessel on starboard.

If there is any doubt which tack B is on then assume starboard and A is required to turn to starboard to avoid contact.

SaylorMade · 13-07-2023, 00:01

You knew you were to give way, and just kept on course, since you found it easier if the other boat gave way?

You should not go on the water again until your attitude has changed.

Rucksta · 13-07-2023, 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaylorMade

You ~~knew~~ thought you were to give way, and just kept on course, since you found it easier if the other boat gave way?

You should not go on the water again until your attitude has changed.

Fixed.

I'd say his attitude is correct.

OP has initiated a COLREGs online refresher course.
This may lead to an improved skill set and a more enjoyable voyage next time.

A bonus lesson would be the exposure to a prevailing belief among many boat owners that they know it all and that the COLREGs and RRS are designed to ensure everyone gets out of their way.

Thank you.

Benz · 13-07-2023, 02:14

I operate a heavy schooner that's a pain to tack, and often in that situation I simply turn into the wind and flap a little to slow down, then fall off to gather way, then "feather" again as many times as I need to let the other guy get by.

HeinSdL · 13-07-2023, 03:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaylorMade

You knew you were to give way, and just kept on course, since you found it easier if the other boat gave way?

You should not go on the water again until your attitude has changed.

... and maybe we can all find more respectful ways of communicating? The OP had a question, maybe he/she wasn't sure what to do, whatever... I think we've all made so many mistakes on (and off) the water that in a place like this CF, let's (all) just learn in a graceful manner?

5BTM · 13-07-2023, 04:05

Knowing that your vesssel can't tack without motor assistance and knowiing your motor was not working you could have gybed or reduced speed.

Don't blame the other guy for "waiting till the last moment"

So did you.

pcmm · 13-07-2023, 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rucksta

B has symmetrical spinnaker poled to port, main will be to starboard.
B is on port tack, as is A.
A is to leeward.
Leeward is the stand on vessel.

Distance, CPA, is not the determining factor.
Stand on vessel must give other vessel room to maneuver.

If B was able to turn to starboard then he had sufficient room.
I would call "Lee-Oh" and take B by the bow..

If B wanted to be a dick a quick gybe would make him the stand on vessel on starboard.

If there is any doubt which tack B is on then assume starboard and A is required to turn to starboard to avoid contact.

The boat pictured in "B" has the spinnaker pole'd out to starboard not port.

bensolomon · 13-07-2023, 04:59

In this situation, I would presume the boat flying the Spinnaker is coming down wind and has reduced maneuverability therefore I would have given way, and done so very early and clearly so the other boat was aware of my intentions.

If I had issues with tacking, then I would have initiated a controlled gybe very early on.

We're all learning, constantly. It's always easy after the situation to analyze it and come up with different possibilities, but in the middle of it when it gets stressful sometimes it can be difficult to keep a clear head. We've all been there.

To the op, would it have been possible for you to furl your jib, and in doing so, trim your main in and use the rounding up to help you tack?

SailorJoJo · 13-07-2023, 07:00

Thank you for thoughts.

I should probably have gybed earlier. The thing was that because we were far out on open ocean, and we weren't initially on collison course. I think he headed towards me just because he wanted to say hello.

He wasn't angry or anything when he gave way and it was basically a misunderstanding.
I'm pretty new to sailing but have been boating my whole life. So I thought it was a good idea to get some opinions so I can make a better choice next time.

Comments about that I shouldn't go out on the water because of my "attitude" is very strange to me.
My attitude is trying to learn so I'm better prepared for similar situations again.

Rucksta · 13-07-2023, 08:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by pcmm

The boat pictured in "B" has the spinnaker pole'd out to starboard not port.

What!, wait, take another look, put glasses on.
Yes. You are correct the pole is rigged to starboard and somewhat shy placing B on starboard broad and A on port close reach.

Both vessels have the ability to turn to starboard.
Nearly always usually the best action.

Lodesman · 13-07-2023, 08:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by SailorJoJo

I should have given way to vessel B, but my full keel motorsailer wasn't even close to being able to go upwind enough to turn to port.

It was kind of ridiculious as we were out in open ocean and he tried to make a point by waiting as long as possible before turning to starboard.

Perhaps it's not attitude that needs changing, but you definitely need to work on your understanding of the Colregs. You found it ridiculous that the other guy followed the rules. He was required to stand-on, and did so, until it became evident that you weren't acting in accordance with the rules. You put him into a sticky situation - as has been noted his turn to starboard was a bit of a dice-roll.

You haven't said how fast either of you were going, and I take it the diagram is not necessarily an accurate, to scale representation of the geometry of the crossing. Given the restrictions you noted - and I question whether you couldn't turn at all to port, or if you just couldn't make a tack; there's a difference - I suggest there were two viable solutions for you:

1) depower to slow down or take all way off. You could have let the sheets out, or turned up into the wind; or

2) depending on the actual speeds and geometry, you could have fallen off to a broad reach and passed ahead.