UK Part 1 registration via UK company by a non UK person

[Zonker]

I've read in different posts that Part 1 registration is not a proof of title / ownership.

If there are any with their boats Part 1 registered - do you guys had any problems in (European) countries ?

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Zonker

I've read in different posts that Part 1 registration is not a proof of title / ownership.

If there are any with their boats Part 1 registered - do you guys had any problems in (European) countries ?

No problems. (both as boat reg and as proof of ownerwhip - and therefore entitlement to wandering around with the boat!).

With UK boats the best you can get is Part 1 for evidence of title / ownership (and in 99% + of cases it is) - but it's not absolute (as appears to be the case in some other countries - USA?).......indeed, the certificate itself has written on it "not proof of title" (I forget the exact wording).

In practice not an issue - but you can seperate the title, if you want to (might confuse da cr#p outta foreign officialdom though ).

[Zonker]

Thanks David

[Zanshin]

Originally Posted by Zonker

I've read in different posts that Part 1 registration is not a proof of title / ownership.

If there are any with their boats Part 1 registered - do you guys had any problems in (European) countries ?

I believe you might be switching Part I and Part III ownership; Part I is proof of ownership and also allows any liens on the boat to be registered, i.e. a bank loan. Part III is also proof of ownership but liens are not reflected.

See https://mcanet.mcga.gov.uk/ssr/ssr/ for the SSR, and
Guide to registration for Part I.

I found registering Part I to be pretty straightforward and simple, apart from the requirement on the current boat that a tonnage survey was to be performed and as the boat isn't in the U.K. it wasn't easy to find an accredited surveyor.

[hoolie]

It's the Part 3 - Small Ships Register - that carries no proof of ownership. Most UK yachts and mobos are either on the SSR or, quite legally, are not registered at all.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Zanshin

I believe you might be switching Part I and Part III ownership; Part I is proof of ownership

At the risk of seeming to quibble over wording.........

Part 1 is evidence of ownership - but it is not proof of ownership (as in absolute proof).

In practice it is likely that the name on the Part 1 registration is the owner (but no 100% guarantee that it is).

My evidence is a copy of a Part 1 Registration document (reverse side) - this one is not me own (am not really called Nigel!) - which clearly states:- "A Certificate of Registry is not proof of ownership".

[Zanshin]

I can't check my Part I registration from here but will see if the reverse side contains the same texts.

From the RYA Pages:

RYA

© Royal Yachting Association Updated: 27 June 2011

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE PART I AND THE PART III (SSR):
The main differences between the two registers are the eligibility requirements and the proof needed to register. Part I of the Register is more of a title register and proof of ownership, which can also record details of any mortgages on the boat, whereas the SSR is more of a passport for your boat to enable you to go overseas.

Part I Registration is the only option available if:
 The boat is over 24 metres, or
 The boat is company owned, or
 A person or company lending money on the security of the boat requires a marine mortgage to be registered against it.


The main advantage that a person has if their boat is on the Part I Register, is that it makes it easier to sell the boat. The two main concerns of any buyer are "does the seller own the boat?" and "is the boat subject to a marine mortgage?" These two crucial points are fairly easy to check if a boat is on the Part I Register - you simply send a cheque for the appropriate fee off to the Registry and ask for a transcript of the boat.

[Jeannius]

It will contain the same text. Mine does. It was the same when there was a mortgage on the boat and it is still the same now there is no mortgage.

As DOJ says, it isn't proof of ownership but is a pretty good indication.

[NYCSavage]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

With UK boats the best you can get is Part 1 for evidence of title / ownership (and in 99% + of cases it is) - but it's not absolute (as appears to be the case in some other countries - USA?).......indeed, the certificate itself has written on it "not proof of title" (I forget the exact wording).

Then how would you prove ownership if requested in US waters?

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by NYCSavage

Then how would you prove ownership if requested in US waters?

Show them the Certificate of Part 1 Registration, which despite what is written on it give the shares each owner owned when it was printed. One owner would own 64/64, 2 owners would each own 32/64ths.

Who actually owns the boat is probably who is listed in the register since the certificate could be out of date. Coast guard could easily check with a phone call.

Pete

[Zanshin]

There is no separate proof of ownership in addition to the Part I registration - apart from the bill-of-sale and similar documents (which, in turn, are part of the documentation needed in order to get the Part I registration).

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Zanshin

From the RYA Pages:

The RYA is not wrong - but that because they do not actually state that Part 1 is Proof of Ownership (the excerpt is carefully worded). However, it is implied and IMO the last paragraph is heading towards being misleading, even if not strictly speaking incorrect.

For officialdom (foreign or domestic!) the best they can get is the name on the Part 1 register. (and as said, that can be checked) - plus what the person in front of them claims / asserts.

Could there be a different owner? Yes! - but in practice that would only become an issue either if someone else was to dispute ownership (they may have a genuine bill of sale to them or the cheque to buy the boat from them bounced).......or if the Registered Owner disclaimed ownership (perhaps after the boat had discharged poop incorrectly? and was facing 127 years in prison and a squillion dollar fine and therefore he decided that not owning the boat would be useful ....or he had simply sold it and new owner lied!).........However, when simply meeting and greeting officialdom none of those will be occuring (and officialdom no reason to suspect any of these maybes and hypotheticals would be the case).

Therefore officialdom accepts what is on the Part 1 doc. and likely that 99%+ of the time it is correct to do so.

With a UK boat Part 1 is as good as (as good as yer gonna get ).

[NYCSavage]

So basically, I could go sailing with Mr Joe Bloggs then whilst at sea, force him to sign a bill of sale and produce the UK part 1 registration document. Then bump him off and throw him overboard.............does that mean I have a brand new Oyster worth a couple of hundred thousand pounds?

Note to self: don't ask for crew positions on here for a while lol

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by NYCSavage

......does that mean I have a brand new Oyster worth a couple of hundred thousand pounds?

Yes and it has been done, one recently in the Indian Ocean I seem to remember.

Pete

[NYCSavage]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Yes and it has been done, one recently in the Indian Ocean I seem to remember.

Pete

It wasnt me, I have an alibi!!!