USCG Legal Search Question?

[sww914]

You can refuse to let them board but you won't like it. Google Jim Blaes fisherman

[CarlF]

While I have a lot of respect for the Coast Guard, they have taken a colonial period law and used it to duck constitutional protections.

Their claim that they can board without probable is based on the Revenue Services Act of 1790. When that law was written there were no life jackets or required safety gear, no toilets on boats, no federal illegal drugs, most sailors were slightly drunk from the daily rum ration, and there were hardly any pleasure boats.

Their primary job was to collect customs duties, so they obviously needed broad powers to board and search commercial vessels. Customs duties was a large part of the Federal Government's income (no income or corporate tax) and smuggling was a huge business.

The Coast Guard's current practice of boarding pleasure boats without probable cause for entirely different purposes is long overdue for a 4th Amendment challenge.

[markpierce]

While the USCG frequently zooms by, particularly in Mare Island Strait, with pistols, automatic rifles, shotguns, and machine guns onboard, they have yet to board my boat. I sometimes wonder how the security would be if Mare Island Naval Base, complete with nuclear submarines, was still operational.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by shane malone

You have no rights off shore!----- AND this is nothing new its been this way for many years.

This is one of the oldest acts of the US government. It was to enable Federal vessels to board an inspect for the purpose of making sure the appropriate tax was paid on cargo. In those days, nearly all boats were commercial. It was inconceivable that private owners would have boats for the purpose of entertainment, etc. As time marched on, the Fed officers retained and extended the right to board, detain, inspect, arrest. A lot of arm twisting has been applied for private yachts to be treated as "a man's castle" but No Joy.

As noted, you might as well be polite, smile through your gritted teeth. The best of it is that the CG is quite professional and knowledgeable. I think they are sensitive to the personal issues and try to be reasonable if you are. The MIB also have carte blanch on boardings.

Fortunately, most of the local state/city cops are being told to stand down unless they have probable cause. Can't board at will in Michigan or Ohio. Probably other states as well. It might make a nice posting to list the limits of the locals in various places with source internet addresses.

There are a lot of related threads on CF where this has been well thrashed.

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

The MIB also have carte blanch on boardings.

Would be curious as to which branch of MIB you are referring? Maybe ICE? They too have invincible powers:

19 U.S. CODE § 1581 - BOARDING VESSELS

(a) Customs officers
Any officer of the customs may at any time go on board of any vessel or vehicle at any place in the United States or within the customs waters or, as he may be authorized, within a customs-enforcement area established under the Anti-Smuggling Act [19 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.], or at any other authorized place, without as well as within his district, and examine the manifest and other documents and papers and examine, inspect, and search the vessel or vehicle and every part thereof and any person, trunk, package, or cargo on board, and to this end may hail and stop such vessel or vehicle, and use all necessary force to compel compliance.
(b) Officers of Department of the Treasury
Officers of the Department of the Treasury and other persons authorized by such department may go on board of any vessel at any place in the United States or within the customs waters and hail, stop, and board such vessel in the enforcement of the navigation laws and arrest or, in case of escape or attempted escape, pursue and arrest any person engaged in the breach or violation of the navigation laws.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

Would be curious as to which branch of MIB you are referring? Maybe ICE? They too have invincible powers:

Since the CG is now part of HS, You can pretty well assume one is the same as another.

Just think of it as Passover and politely invite Elijah to join you.

[jhovan]

As much as Americans hate to admit it, the constitution is dying in the USA. The 4th amendment is pretty clear. The founders are turning in their graves.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

[smaarch]

I'll post this yet once again.
post 9/11.....you may want to check your rights
Homeland Rules....

https://www.aclu.org/know-your-right...-free-zone-map

[smaarch]

Originally Posted by jhovan

As much as Americans hate to admit it, the constitution is dying in the USA. The 4th amendment is pretty clear. The founders are turning in their graves.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

that's a definite +1

[Steve Bean]

Not near the U.S. and not firsthand information: a skipper I knew on the East Coast knew an American professional skipper of an American millionaire's yacht who was arrested in Spain when drugs were found in the safe which the skipper was unable to open.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by Steve Bean

Not near the U.S. and not firsthand information: a skipper I knew on the East Coast knew an American professional skipper of an American millionaire's yacht who was arrested in Spain when drugs were found in the safe which the skipper was unable to open.

And I would think if the skipper proves he had no access and no knowledge of them but only the owner had access then they will switch their charge. But if the skipper was aware of drugs being carried and used on the boat then he took a very unwise chance.

[Steve Bean]

I don't know how the captain could prove he had no knowledge or access. The owner was in the U.S. This happened over 30 years ago and I don't know the final outcome. The point is that the authorities anywhere can and will search your boat.

[Lepke]

I am a former commercial fisherman and now retired yachtsman. I have been boarded many times. Don't carry things you have to hide. If you can't take a weekend cruise without getting high you have a bigger problem than the Coast Guard. The Coast Guard will be as polite or more polite than you are. They are people first. Even when you are in violation of something, politeness does no harm and sometimes reduces or eliminates the violation. They have a job to do. Customs, smuggling, Homeland security, marine safety, among others. I used to fish near a training area. We (fishermen) seemed to get a lot of boardings. However, when someone in trouble called, they came then, too.
Lepke

[ontherocks83]

Originally Posted by Lepke

I am a former commercial fisherman and now retired yachtsman. I have been boarded many times. Don't carry things you have to hide. If you can't take a weekend cruise without getting high you have a bigger problem than the Coast Guard. The Coast Guard will be as polite or more polite than you are. They are people first. Even when you are in violation of something, politeness does no harm and sometimes reduces or eliminates the violation. They have a job to do. Customs, smuggling, Homeland security, marine safety, among others. I used to fish near a training area. We (fishermen) seemed to get a lot of boardings. However, when someone in trouble called, they came then, too.
Lepke

Who said anything about getting high or hiding things you weren't supposed to have on board? My original post was what are the legal differences between land and sea when it comes to searches. Not how do I hide illegal substances.

Again the reason I asked was on land I know the L.E.O.'s can pound sand and not violate my privacy without a warrant or consent. On sea thanks to people replying I now know the laws are much much different.

[fjwiley1]

This has been a good Thread....just remember....when the boat is a rockin an the Coast Guard comes a knockin.....just be polite an keepa Smilin cause Life is Good....

The End