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RiverRat37 · 18-06-2021, 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I think the self driving cars ... are the only hope for our future generations. I mean, they’re too brain damaged from drugs or perhaps too stupid to do it themselves anymore.

Not to be negative about this whole "cars without drivers", but if you've noticed all those big promises from the startups (and others) have fallen overboard and drowned. No fully autonomous vehicles on the horizon any more. Not even close.
They could only drive themselves successfully (and sometimes not even that) in rather perfect conditions. Never, ever in a heavy rainstorm and forget about snow & ice; not even close. And a STOP sign with a branch partially blocking it? Hoo boy, hang-on Buttercup, it's gonna get rough.
It's far, far, far harder than the newbies ever imagined (picture Trump saying "No one knew how complex health care was!!!" Oh yes they did.) And in the case of automobiles Ford Engineers sneered at the newbies on the block who knew everything. I recall one exec saying: "Ford has 17 dedicated engineers for windshield wipers -- just wipers." And they still don't get it right all the time in spite of trying. This stuff is hard. Damned hard. And a long ways off.

As to the MAS adventure across the Atlantic: Could someone please help me understand WHY anyone would even want to do this? I don't get it.

fivecapes · 18-06-2021, 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by hpeer

... when faces with the choice between hitting one of two things; another boat or a bridge? Suppose the other boat is a light barge? Suppose it is a evening dinner party boat with 150 guests?

Option with fewest lives lost, trolley problem finally solved?

**boatman61** · 18-06-2021, 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I think the self driving cars and now self sailing boats are the only hope for our future generations. I mean, they’re too brain damaged from drugs or perhaps too stupid to do it themselves anymore. Examination standards are being lowered continuously to not have them fail en masse so there’s not much else to try

I disagree.. education standards were lowered because we scared the **** outa the establishment in the 60's and 70's... sadly we then sold our souls to the company store.

hzcruiser · 18-06-2021, 19:54

Very interesting project, indeed! And the saildrones as well!

Personally I would feel fairly safe navigating next to an AI ship. For commercial shipping it might sound a great solution to thwart piracy, but as mentioned below, the big ships need some level of maintenance or fixing while underway before the problem becomes bigger. Not every small malfunction can be picked up by the sensors.

And as a sailor, being able to sleep whenever you want and sail when you want because you can fully rely on the AI would also be a nice option.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongo

I have spent an entire career, (marine engineer), at sea, on a very wide range of ships. Steam Turbine, Diesel, Gas Turbine, fully automated and non-automated, stick ships, and bunkers, to Containerships and Super Tankers…. One thing I can say, for certain, is that ships need maintenance,
[...]
human beings can have a symbiotic relationship where it isn’t just one or the other, but humans being assisted by automation, and automation being assisted by humans.
[...]

Totally agree with you! BTW, I believe we already have that symbiotic relationship today with auto pilots and many other machines and devices that assist us.

**s/v Jedi** · 18-06-2021, 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by hzcruiser

Very interesting project, indeed! And the saildrones as well!

Personally I would feel fairly safe navigating next to an AI ship. For commercial shipping it might sound a great solution to thwart piracy, but as mentioned below, the big ships need some level of maintenance or fixing while underway before the problem becomes bigger. Not every small malfunction can be picked up by the sensors.

That’s what the R2’s are for

hzcruiser · 18-06-2021, 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiverRat37

Not to be negative about this whole "cars without drivers", but if you've noticed all those big promises from the startups (and others) have fallen overboard and drowned. No fully autonomous vehicles on the horizon any more. Not even close.[...]

As to the MAS adventure across the Atlantic: Could someone please help me understand WHY anyone would even want to do this? I don't get it.

Yes, we're not there yet, but you have to start somewhere and improve on it rather that waiting for the perfect solution falling out of the sky.

Why they do it? Read their site and also the Promare https://www.promare.org/

It's all there...

CaptTom · 19-06-2021, 04:21

According to their tracking page, it looks like something went wrong.

BenBowSirocco · 19-06-2021, 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiverRat37

Not to be negative about this whole "cars without drivers", but if you've noticed all those big promises from the startups (and others) have fallen overboard and drowned. No fully autonomous vehicles on the horizon any more. Not even close.

I completely disagree. I think where they are today is INCREDIBLE compared to where they were 10 years ago.

But I do agree they have a long way to go- just give it time. I for one would be overjoyed to remove humans from the freeway, I think people can drive slow, but everything about the freeway system would be better without other idiots driving on it. haha
Too many different people with too many different ways of doing things driving 70+ miles an hour a couple feet apart for my liking.

I have read some proposed ideas about giving autonomous cars their own freeway lane. If that were to happen, I think we would see dramatic increases in funding and effort, which would in turn render faster development and success.

There are multiple "driverless taxi" pilot programs happening as we speak in this country- on clear days within set boundaries/limits. That level of practice and learning is important for both public trust (very little it seems currently) and for the machines.
If interested read about WAYMO (google's) 24/7 driverless taxi service in Phoenix AZ and surrounding metro.

BenBowSirocco · 19-06-2021, 05:34

Just for fun. Has a little tube video with it.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/36972/...lic-in-phoenix

johnjuliano · 19-06-2021, 09:13

It looks like it may have already made a U-turn.

belizesailor · 19-06-2021, 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

Okay, here's one: a bunch of yobbos get three sheets-to-the-wind, take their cigarette (or equivalent high-powered, exceptionally fast speedboat) and go out to play slalom and/or keep-away with the MAS - just for a little fun.

This is the second thread I've responded to this morning where the impetus would be taking humans out of the equation (thus not having the bother of having to deal with - or pay - employees) is at the root of a corporate entity's actions.

In this case it's under the guise of innovation. In the second case, it's under the guise of denying rightfully owed insurance reimbursement.

Okay, I'll shut up now.

As you can see, Stu, you've found my Achilles heel...!

LW77

Humans will be increasingly taken out of the equation...its just a matter of time now. AI assuming a much bigger role in many activities, not just shipping, has been on the horizon for decades. I think we are now crossing the tipping pont when the rate of related change will increase dramatically.

(former IT guy)

belizesailor · 19-06-2021, 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

This response depresses me beyond belief.

Your contention is that humans' intellectual and physical capacities ought to be engaged in selling or advertising things? And that is better than war?

My point was far more broad.

LittleWing77

So, war is better than selling things?

RiverRat37 · 19-06-2021, 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Humans will be increasingly taken out of the equation...its just a matter of time now. AI assuming a much bigger role in many activities, not just shipping, has been on the horizon for decades. I think we are now crossing the tipping pont when the rate of related change will increase dramatically.

(former IT guy)

I'd be happy to take on that challenge. I believe AI is in it's bare infancy and can do almost nothing useful yet. Being able to think like a human? Not even on the far horizon. As to crossing a tipping point into high speed change ... I think we're already there but it has little to do with AI. Someone recently pointed out that there is sooooo much that AI can't do that it's almost senseless to refer to it as "intelligence". Like self-driving cars we're a long, long way from either one providing much of a meaningful assist to our needs (driving around 8% of Phoenix in carefully scoped out areas -- never, ever in a rainstorm or dust storm -- is hardly autonomous as we think of it. The cognitive abilities of a human? Not even in your dreams. Besides, we need to concentrate on Climate Change first or the rest won't matter.

(former IT guy for 40 years -- who worked on the experimental perceptron at Cornell in the 1960's [Cognitive Systems Research Program under Dr. Frank Rosenblatt], and well aware of the failures new tech can suffer/cause, along with it's benefits. See: Ransomeware!)

LittleWing77 · 19-06-2021, 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

This response depresses me beyond belief.

Your contention is that humans' intellectual and physical capacities ought to be engaged in selling or advertising things? And that is better than war?

My point was far more broad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by belizesailor

So, war is better than selling things?

Oh, for pity's.sake, Belize.

That was NOT what I was saying.

Don't be so obtuse.

LittleWing77