What could possibly go wrong?

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by RiverRat37

I sincerely doubt we are anywhere near an insect or lizard with AI development. They've been around for millennia ... successfully. That takes a lot more than you're giving them credit for. Just sayin'.

It's an imperfect analogy but while insects have been around for many millions of years (not just millennia), they aren't particularly "intelligent".

I suspect you are confusing evolution with intelligence. Evolution and refine and improve the design of a species to an incredible effect.

Intelligence is the ability to collect knowledge and skills and then apply those. For the most part, insects have very limited ability to learn. There is some minor intelligence such as bees communicating the location of flowers to the hive or ants building bridges of bodies over obstructions...but generally fairly limited compared to higher order creatures.

Evolution on the other hand is in many ways a "dumb" process. There is no thought or learning in how it operates. The individuals who are successful reproduce. Those that don't die. There is no one looking at the outcomes and planning for how to improve the next generation.

While there is some interaction between evolution and intelligence...in some cases (such as humans), greater intelligence can be advantageous as an evolutionary adaptation.

Small short lived creatures often are better off with limited intelligence because the large numbers and fast reproduction favor evolutionary adaptation over greater intelligence to ensure the propagation of the species.

Larger long lived creatures often benefit from greater intelligence. With fewer numbers, a change in the environment can wipe out a species before evolution has a chance to solve an issue. For example, the ability of humans to figure out that wearing animal pelts allowed early humans to move from Africa into cold climates for example while Chimpanzees were never able to make that leap.


When in learning mode, AI can look somewhat like evolution in the sense that there will be failures but true AI is learning from prior iterations and directing future iterations purposely to avoid future failures. Evolution doesn't really care, it just keeps throwing things at the wall to see what sticks.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

This is (one of) the points made most succinctly by Bongo in Post #27, CaptTom.

Right. Six days ago. I was posting an update, and observing that there were still no details. As you say, tail between legs indeed!

Here's my point: If you want people to get excited about your geeky project, then remember that geeks need details. Words, diagrams, descriptions, specifications. Not flashy graphics and meaningless marketing fluff.

It makes me wonder if the folks running the project are competent.

[s/v Jedi]

About ants… leaf cutter ants have gardens where they grow fungi for their food supply. They go out and gather leafs, cutting them in pieces and hauling those to the gardens to make compost to grow the fungi on. Pretty intelligent if you ask me. And genetic memory for the win.

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

Here's my point: If you want people to get excited about your geeky project, then remember that geeks need details. Words, diagrams, descriptions, specifications. Not flashy graphics and meaningless marketing fluff!

Reminds me of that joke
"I resemble that remark." (Deliberate misstatement of "I resent that remark.")

Heehee,
LittleWing77

Don't worry, Cap. Once they've conducted an analysis of what went wrong and how they fixed it, I'm sure you'll get your graphs, charts, diagrams and descriptions... ad nauseum!

[StuM]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

Right. Six days ago. I was posting an update, and observing that there were still no details. As you say, tail between legs indeed!

Here's my point: If you want people to get excited about your geeky project, then remember that geeks need details. Words, diagrams, descriptions, specifications. Not flashy graphics and meaningless marketing fluff.

It makes me wonder if the folks running the project are competent.

Well, I guess they've answered my original question - in spades!

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by StuM

Well, I guess they've answered my original question - in spades!

Nah, Stu - stay tuned for the graphs, charts, diagrams and descriptions... with circles and arrows on the back explainin' what each one wuz... courtesy of the Alice's Restaurant Masacree Movement...!

You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant ('ceptin' Alice)...
LittleWing77

[CaptTom]

Nice touch, bringing Arlo into the thread. Just heard that song yesterday!

We'll see about the graphs. My guess is no. Just more slick videos and fashionably themed web pages.

[fivecapes]

Vessel develops problems after setting off, returns safely to port.

Film at 11.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by fivecapes

Vessel develops problems after setting off, returns safely to port.

Film at 11.

Correction:

Vessel develops problems after setting off, unable to return to port. Has to be recovered by a manned vessel.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

Nice touch, bringing Arlo into the thread. Just heard that song yesterday!

We'll see about the graphs. My guess is no. Just more slick videos and fashionably themed web pages.

My dog is called Arlo.
Jes sayin'

[fivecapes]

CorrectionClarification:

Vessel develops problems after setting off, returns safely to port under tow.



Film at 11.

[Sonny36]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

Thanks for that reminder, SaltyDawg. I do hope so.

I guess what I'm seeing in the overall trend across all societies is that humans are being removed. Consequently, everyone is feeling very alienated and isolated.

What is one of the impacts? We see it here every week: yet another newbie who is going to buy a boat and sail away - or buy a boat to connect with our sailing community.

"Corporatization" is one of the contributing factors. Roger Waters of Pink Floyd had this response just yesterday:

Roger Waters' response to the World's "Powerful Idiots"
https://tribune.com.pk/story/2305729...s-in-the-world

This is probably my most political post in all my years on this Forum, so I really will stop now, but I will never be in favour of the systematic removal of humans from our own society in the purported name of technological advancement.

Fair winds to my fellow sailors,
Warmly,
LittleWing77

I've recently come to the opposite conclusion re: space travel, where except for sub-lunar space, there's no need or practicality in sending humans to space beyond the moon. For one thing, too much time & expense are spent developing spacecraft to carry humans. I think we're capable of developing highly sophisticated machines that can do whatever humans can. Also, after years of exploration of the moon and Mars mechanically, it seems obvious to me to ask, "What is there, anyway, that could benefit the human condition?

I apologize for going OT, but this thread seemed to be a way to express my long-held thoughts to thoughtful people.

[BenBowSirocco]

One thing about the moon and Mars is that they offer space for us to continue to explore, feel challenged, spread ourselves and such things. “Because it’s there” comes to mind.

But there is a growing trend away from other planets. Bezo’s for example wants nothing to do with other plants except to mine them for resources. He is also an investor in an asteroid mining company. His main idea though (as I understand it) is to create space stations for human habitation that spend many years (ideally infinite) self sufficiently navigating and living in space to harvest resources and these machines seem to him the logical next step. Mars is Elon’s goal.
The people who are trying to go to Mars also want to remake it in earths image with o-zone generators, oxygen generators, solar capture ice melting systems- no one just wants to go to Mars, they want to build a second “earth”. Manipulation of the Mars planet into a habitable place to continue the spread of the human condition of self replication. A seriously useful instinct historically, though not helpful to us anymore.
The idea of too many people and goals of zero birth rate are not new, but don’t get much coverage these days, unfortunately it’s a hard truth that the earth and subsequently the future of our species- perhaps all species would benefit from less humans.

Of course I cannot say anything as to how this might work. I am not a judge and jury of what is the most important to protect. I just know the math makes very good sense. Although I have personally seen in my relatively short lifetime enough development to wish for less of it and it’s very clear to me there is no stopping it in our current way of thinking.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by fivecapes

CorrectionClarification:



Vessel develops problems after setting off, returns safely to port under tow.







Film at 11.

Like thats never happened to a crewed vessel.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by BenBowSirocco

One thing about the moon and Mars is that they offer space for us to continue to explore, feel challenged, spread ourselves and such things. “Because it’s there” comes to mind.

But there is a growing trend away from other planets. Bezo’s for example wants nothing to do with other plants except to mine them for resources. He is also an investor in an asteroid mining company. His main idea though (as I understand it) is to create space stations for human habitation that spend many years (ideally infinite) self sufficiently navigating and living in space to harvest resources and these machines seem to him the logical next step. Mars is Elon’s goal.
The people who are trying to go to Mars also want to remake it in earths image with o-zone generators, oxygen generators, solar capture ice melting systems- no one just wants to go to Mars, they want to build a second “earth”. Manipulation of the Mars planet into a habitable place to continue the spread of the human condition of self replication. A seriously useful instinct historically, though not helpful to us anymore.
The idea of too many people and goals of zero birth rate are not new, but don’t get much coverage these days, unfortunately it’s a hard truth that the earth and subsequently the future of our species- perhaps all species would benefit from less humans.

Of course I cannot say anything as to how this might work. I am not a judge and jury of what is the most important to protect. I just know the math makes very good sense. Although I have personally seen in my relatively short lifetime enough development to wish for less of it and it’s very clear to me there is no stopping it in our current way of thinking.

I think the drive to expand is still useful to the human race. I expect space exploration will ultimately mirror what we have done here on earth. If the human race does not colonize space then we are screwed, because I believe we lack the collective will to preserve this planet.

Musk has stated that his goal is to save humanity. I agree with him that the only way that is going to happen is to expand beyond our little blue marble...maybe ultimately saving it from ourselves.

Maybe explorers/cruisers of the future will sail on solar winds.