What could possibly go wrong?

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

About ants… leaf cutter ants have gardens where they grow fungi for their food supply. They go out and gather leafs, cutting them in pieces and hauling those to the gardens to make compost to grow the fungi on. Pretty intelligent if you ask me. And genetic memory for the win.

The last statement undermined your point and shows a common misperception as to what intelligence is, particularly in terms of AI...being pre-programed to do something is not the same as intelligence.

Evolution can create some very elegant designs but it's basically throw trillions of things against the wall and sooner or later one will be a perfect copy of the Mona Lisa.

This isn't to say, leaf cutter ants have zero intelligence but it really is a very simple form of intelligence.

[hzcruiser]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Like thats never happened to a crewed vessel.

Very good point!

[capn ken]

Im sorry Dave ?I cant do that !

[Newfoundgal]

I don't even think it will make it half way across the Atlantic before the woke crowd cancel it and send a dingy out to spray paint it and topple it!! :-)

[clakiep]

For me it is fascinating to observe with what a hurry mankind is working towards eliminating themself from all actions and decisions. All I can do is whish them good luck, and hope there will be still some people left to congregate, who insist in keeping some autonomy.

Capt. Claus - ocean tramp of the eighties ( and smartphone refuser )

[davefromoregon]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Another thought on this...
- Traditional ship: The crew is taken hostage off the coast of Somalia. It's a standoff as they don't want the crew injured or killed. Eventually (often quietly), they pay off the pirates encouraging more piracy.
- AI ship: The navy goes in guns blazing and makes an example of the pirates.

Plus there is no traditional helm, so the pirates have no means to navigate back to their base. The ship delivers them to the nearest navy ship for capture.

It would likely become a drone at that point. Someone back at HQ would take the ship to meet the navy team.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by davefromoregon

It would likely become a drone at that point. Someone back at HQ would take the ship to meet the navy team.

Sure but that drone is going in guns blazing. They might let a couple limp back to shore so the story can spread about how you don't want to go near a freighter.

[clakiep]

Wonderful, and someone really expects any pirates will just stay put when they realise they can't control the course of the ship ? Or will they just explode the ship with the crew inside shelterd in their shielded safety compartment. Pirates with small outboard driven boats render a big ship, any anyone relies on remote electronic control to solve the situation ? The crazyness and unquestioned belief in digital measures is simply unbelievable ! And sure will be told otherwise in the future.

Capt. Claus - safely ashore in São Paulo

[BenBowSirocco]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

I think the drive to expand is still useful to the human race. I expect space exploration will ultimately mirror what we have done here on earth. If the human race does not colonize space then we are screwed, because I believe we lack the collective will to preserve this planet.

Musk has stated that his goal is to save humanity. I agree with him that the only way that is going to happen is to expand beyond our little blue marble...maybe ultimately saving it from ourselves.

Maybe explorers/cruisers of the future will sail on solar winds.

I sure hope so! Sailing some solar winds would be an incredible experience.



I agree with you that we either need a dramatic and complete change of principle thought, which is highly unlikely/impossible due to our own diversity, without some sort of galvanizing event, likely an event that means its too late or something so unimaginable we have no idea what it could be.



The only problem with either idea is that it will take many years for them to take clear shape. It seems to me we would need a global cooperation for real success, which again is pretty tough to imagine. Although the study of space seems to have great cooperation, which is a good sign. haha

[Dave9111]

I'm an automation engineer (robots, automatic machines, vision, etc) and there is a big difference between AI and automation. They can both be used together with AI being a component of automation.

As an automation engineer there are somethings that really annoy me.
Sure, automated cars that "drive themselves" is a big goal for many car makers, but there are some huge hurdles and we have made it very difficult for ourselves.

For years there has been guided vehicles that move around in factories delivering parts etc from place to place. Most of those vehicles traditionally followed a wire buried in the floor. We have an extensive highway system but I haven't heard of any consideration for embedding wires, or guidance devices into the road way or surrounding area to make guiding cars easier. The thought is that cameras and/or scanning lasers are more effective at guiding vehicles.

That's just dumb. There are simpler solutions.

You don't see rail vehicles abandoning rails because its not "high tech". Sometimes low tech is more reliable and less costly than high tech.

Another thing: I have a large yard and detest mowing the grass in 2021. Why can't buy a self driving mower that can do 2 1/2 acres with trees. I've thought about making one (its a lot of work), but I keep hoping that someone else will come out with something... any day now.. nope.

Yet in the news...Tesla, GM, Ford, etc is going to come out with a true self driving car any day now, that can criss-cross the nation while I snooze, yet I can't buy a self driving mower that can mow at 1 1/2 mph and cut my grass? (The little toy Roomba like ones don't count)

So I'm not holding my breath. We have a long ways to go, and frankly I'm disappointed in our progress. The hype from Tesla and others has been extreme. Tesla does make a nice electric car, but you do know that electric cars were tooling around in the 1800's, right?

https://www.energy.gov/articles/history-electric-car

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by BenBowSirocco

I sure hope so! Sailing some solar winds would be an incredible experience.



I agree with you that we either need a dramatic and complete change of principle thought, which is highly unlikely/impossible due to our own diversity, without some sort of galvanizing event, likely an event that means its too late or something so unimaginable we have no idea what it could be.



The only problem with either idea is that it will take many years for them to take clear shape. It seems to me we would need a global cooperation for real success, which again is pretty tough to imagine. Although the study of space seems to have great cooperation, which is a good sign. haha

Maybe we should focus our efforts on creating a "galvenizing event" instead. Like realistic AI "aliens" staging an invasion of Earth! [emoji57]

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Dave9111

I'm an automation engineer (robots, automatic machines, vision, etc) and there is a big difference between AI and automation. They can both be used together with AI being a component of automation.

As an automation engineer there are somethings that really annoy me.
Sure, automated cars that "drive themselves" is a big goal for many car makers, but there are some huge hurdles and we have made it very difficult for ourselves.

For years there has been guided vehicles that move around in factories delivering parts etc from place to place. Most of those vehicles traditionally followed a wire buried in the floor. We have an extensive highway system but I haven't heard of any consideration for embedding wires, or guidance devices into the road way or surrounding area to make guiding cars easier. The thought is that cameras and/or scanning lasers are more effective at guiding vehicles.

That's just dumb. There are simpler solutions.

You don't see rail vehicles abandoning rails because its not "high tech". Sometimes low tech is more reliable and less costly than high tech.

Another thing: I have a large yard and detest mowing the grass in 2021. Why can't buy a self driving mower that can do 2 1/2 acres with trees. I've thought about making one (its a lot of work), but I keep hoping that someone else will come out with something... any day now.. nope.

Yet in the news...Tesla, GM, Ford, etc is going to come out with a true self driving car any day now, that can criss-cross the nation while I snooze, yet I can't buy a self driving mower that can mow at 1 1/2 mph and cut my grass? (The little toy Roomba like ones don't count)

So I'm not holding my breath. We have a long ways to go, and frankly I'm disappointed in our progress. The hype from Tesla and others has been extreme. Tesla does make a nice electric car, but you do know that electric cars were tooling around in the 1800's, right?

https://www.energy.gov/articles/history-electric-car

So whats the hitch on a self drivng lawn more? Seems like Rumba etc has the basic same functionality, just need to bolt it to a lawn mower.

Re Tesla. True not much really new tech. Musk made electric cars sexy. WTF wants to drive a Prius when you can blow the doors off a Porche! Now he plans to make them affordable...he may be on to something.

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by Dave9111

Another thing: I have a large yard and detest mowing the grass in 2021. Why can't buy a self driving mower that can do 2 1/2 acres with trees. I've thought about making one (its a lot of work), but I keep hoping that someone else will come out with something... any day now.. nope.

Good news! There are automated lawnmowers. I have seen them ranging from $900 (plus tax!) to around $3,000 U.S. plus tax.

At first I thought it was absurd to pay that much, however after taking care of my mother's place while she had her hips replaced, I have to say it is looking more and more worthwhile!!

It works in a predefined boundary and not surprisingly, there are apps to allow additional controls. The odd thing I noticed is that it has headlights. Why does it need these when it is a robot? It is good for up to 145 minutes too, well at least for the highest end model. The photo is for the high end, aka most expensive, model.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Husqvarna-H...DIY/5001894735

[BenBowSirocco]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Tesla. True not much really new tech. Musk made electric cars sexy. WTF wants to drive a Prius when you can blow the doors off a Porche! Now he plans to make them affordable...he may be on to something.

The new plaid edition does 0-60 in less than 2 seconds and doesnt stop pulling until 200+ mph. It also costs significantly less than most super cars (that it soundly beats the doors off of: a 4 door family sedan by the way) although is staggeringly expensive to me.

I strongly disagree that Tesla tech is not new. The long standing big players of the auto industry cant keep up and Musk gave away many of his patents for the motors and motor controllers he uses in order to encourage other companies to get moving on electric vehicles.



Can you imagine the technology involved in wrapping the winding coils on the armature of an electric motor that will take a car to 200mph when it spins at many time that speed?
I hear after they wind the coil of the armature in their proprietary alloy, by a propitiatory machine, they then wrap it in pre-stressed pre-pregnated carbon fiber and then bake it under pressure.. None of that existed 10 years ago.

Sure- electric cars are not themselves something exceptionally new, but dont let that make you think Tesla or NIO electric vehicles are not made possible the materials and technology of our age.

I do not think these vehicles were even thinkable 30 years ago- which that alone makes this all very new technology.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by Dave9111

We have an extensive highway system but I haven't heard of any consideration for embedding wires, or guidance devices into the road way or surrounding area to make guiding cars easier.

This is the way to go! I've been thinking along these lines for decades now. I'm always surprised no-one has implemented something. You know those reflectors they embed in the roads along the painted lines? Imagine each one is a kind of RFID tag which your car can read.

Originally Posted by Dave9111

Why can't buy a self driving mower that can do 2 1/2 acres with trees.

I thought I'd seen these, and this link confirms it:
https://www.pcmag.com/picks/the-best-robot-lawn-mowers

I haven't really looked into it (I like driving my lawn tractor around) so maybe they're not very good yet.