Where to flag and pay VAT

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by iabmatos

TIR? Or TOR?



SEE: TOR reliefs ( transfer of residence) to bring in personal possessions VAT free ( including your boat ) -

Imports free of VAT as personal property (see Directive 2009/132/EC)

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...LEX:32009L0132





Thanks



Ismael

Sorry that’s my old age

TOR is a process to transfer residency within the EU or into the EU where taxes can be mitigated

A TIR is a temporary import relief.
However the specific one for boats in the EU is called the Temporary Admission Procedure

https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_custom...ats-faq_en.pdf

[meirriba]

Originally Posted by acunningham

By "EU subject", do you mean EU citizen, or do you mean tax resident in an EU country? I was under the impression that the rules are based on tax residency.

Resident or citizen.
Citizen, that is living mainly out of the EU most of the time but register himself as an owner of the boat (or as operator on Greek Transit Log) is liable to pay.

[jmschmidt]

No wonder the Brits want out of the EU, or at least the intelligent ones do. Why don't the rest of you Europeans throw out your haft-assed system of commie regulators, bureaucrats and progress disrupts in Brussels and hire Trump. He will be out of a job soon and I'm sure he's up to trying to draining your swamp while giving you booming economies for a couple of years like he did hear. Otherwise just kiss your "you know whats" goodbye and sign on with the Chinese. That's what we Americas have done.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by jmschmidt

No wonder the Brits want out of the EU, or at least the intelligent ones do. Why don't the rest of you Europeans throw out your haft-assed system of commie regulators, bureaucrats and progress disrupts in Brussels and hire Trump. He will be out of a job soon and I'm sure he's up to trying to draining your swamp while giving you booming economies for a couple of years like he did hear. Otherwise just kiss your "you know whats" goodbye and sign on with the Chinese. That's what we Americas have done.

I suggest the following books to enlighten you , Ive pitched the age appropriately

ladybird book1 , hello Jane , hello Peter , run Jane run ...

Pages of learning for you

The brits are about to learn an extraordinary painful lesson

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I suggest the following books to enlighten you , Ive pitched the age appropriately

ladybird book1 , hello Jane , hello Peter , run Jane run ...

Pages of learning for you

The brits are about to learn an extraordinary painful lesson

Ahh.. The Eternal Optimist..
Alternatively Brussels will learn a painful lesson if Italy and others follow..
I recall many professies in 2016 by the 'experts' that failed to materialize, a crashed economy, no one would do trade deals with us, blah, blah..
Time will tell but personally.. I wish I was 40yrs younger to enjoy the ride.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Ahh.. The Eternal Optimist..
Alternatively Brussels will learn a painful lesson if Italy and others follow..
I recall many professies in 2016 by the 'experts' that failed to materialize, a crashed economy, no one would do trade deals with us, blah, blah..
Time will tell but personally.. I wish I was 40yrs younger to enjoy the ride.

After watching the fiasco that is brexit , the EU is stronger then ever. No one but none wants the absolute chaos that followed in the uk post 2016 , it has torn that country apart and the rift will take a generation to resolve



As Scotland secedes and Northern Ireland now remains in the customs union/ single market , the chaos will only get worse.

Good thing their gone , they were never committed to the concept yet 66% of community laws were a result of British lobbying , we can expect much less nonsense post 1st Jan

For example the RCD directives on boats as virtually instigated by the uk as was the REACH directives on chemicals , the uk had the most effective eu delegation service in Brussels of all the major nations.

Anyway it’s bye bye and off we are to GATT tariffs from the 1st. Shows over

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by jmschmidt

No wonder the Brits want out of the EU, or at least the intelligent ones do. Why don't the rest of you Europeans throw out your haft-assed system of commie regulators, bureaucrats and progress disrupts in Brussels and hire Trump. He will be out of a job soon and I'm sure he's up to trying to draining your swamp while giving you booming economies for a couple of years like he did hear. Otherwise just kiss your "you know whats" goodbye and sign on with the Chinese. That's what we Americas have done.

The brits invented most of this legislation , it’s one of the most rule bound places on the planet, they are worse then the Germans for rules and regs.

Mind you for mindless bureaucracy , in my experience the US is far the worst place.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

After watching the fiasco that is brexit , the EU is stronger then ever. No one but none wants the absolute chaos that followed in the uk post 2016 , it has torn that country apart and the rift will take a generation to resolve



As Scotland secedes and Northern Ireland now remains in the customs union/ single market , the chaos will only get worse.

Good thing their gone , they were never committed to the concept yet 66% of community laws were a result of British lobbying , we can expect much less nonsense post 1st Jan

For example the RCD directives on boats as virtually instigated by the uk as was the REACH directives on chemicals , the uk had the most effective eu delegation service in Brussels of all the major nations.

Anyway it’s bye bye and off we are to GATT tariffs from the 1st. Shows over

The fiasco after the referendum was a result of the shock delivered to the smug politicians when they found they had misjudged the public mood.. Then came the mad scramble to try and convince the people they had made a mistake and got it wrong.. a blatant attempt to get another Referendum to reverse the decision.
As for Scotland seceding.. Your having a larf or drinking from the Sturgeon whisky jar.. NI will be reviewed every 4yrs and that's a long time in politics.
We should have left Dec 2016 but sadly we have to many pigs at the trough in both Houses.

Funny.. I seem to remember things differently.. like the French trying to impose their rules on Brit boats and the RYA fighting to keep us separate.. same with the joke CE standard pushed/managed by French boat builders to crush competition.
But hey.. Good riddance to you as well.

[goboatingnow]

The RCD was instigated by the British via lobbying from the BMIF because they complained about Italian and French standards being differebt

The reach directives were lifted from U.K. legislation

Margaret thatcher was the single biggest proponent on the single market

The ecj was largely a creation of British opinions

Virtually 2/3of all community legislation was promoted by the U.K.

The U.K. support 97% of all community legislation.

we can now settle back to a more realistic pragmatic, Law making once you’ve vanished

As to why a poster decided to trash this practical topic is beyond me.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

After watching the fiasco that is brexit , the EU is stronger then ever. No one but none wants the absolute chaos that followed in the uk post 2016 , it has torn that country apart and the rift will take a generation to resolve



As Scotland secedes and Northern Ireland now remains in the customs union/ single market , the chaos will only get worse.

Good thing their gone , they were never committed to the concept yet 66% of community laws were a result of British lobbying , we can expect much less nonsense post 1st Jan

For example the RCD directives on boats as virtually instigated by the uk as was the REACH directives on chemicals , the uk had the most effective eu delegation service in Brussels of all the major nations.

Anyway it’s bye bye and off we are to GATT tariffs from the 1st. Shows over

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The RCD was instigated by the British via lobbying from the BMIF because they complained about Italian and French standards being differebt

The reach directives were lifted from U.K. legislation

Margaret thatcher was the single biggest proponent on the single market

The ecj was largely a creation of British opinions

Virtually 2/3of all community legislation was promoted by the U.K.

The U.K. support 97% of all community legislation.

we can now settle back to a more realistic pragmatic, Law making once you’ve vanished

As to why a poster decided to trash this practical topic is beyond me.

Says the man who kicked it off..

[George DuBose]

I don't know if the Brits are worse then the Germans or anyone else, but it has been clear to me that many rules and regulations set by the EU in particular, are not thought through. These laws are often not made by naval architects and reflect concepts that are not logical.

One of my favorite regulations is that it illegal to have expired flares on board when in France. No matter how many rockets you have that are up-to-date, if you have any that are out-of-date, there's a 75 euro per piece fine...

Then saying that seacocks. newly installed but of inappropriate materials must be changed every five years. Huh? Why just not make a law that requires seacocks to only be allowed of proper materials.

My 50 year old seacocks are in perfect condition, no corrosion, no dezincification. They were well made to begin with and made for the marine environment.

I think that the whole world is on track to become one big nanny state. Thank God with a sailboat one can escape.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by George DuBose

I don't know if the Brits are worse then the Germans or anyone else, but it has been clear to me that many rules and regulations set by the EU in particular, are not thought through. These laws are often not made by naval architects and reflect concepts that are not logical.

One of my favorite regulations is that it illegal to have expired flares on board when in France. No matter how many rockets you have that are up-to-date, if you have any that are out-of-date, there's a 75 euro per piece fine...

Then saying that seacocks. newly installed but of inappropriate materials must be changed every five years. Huh? Why just not make a law that requires seacocks to only be allowed of proper materials.

My 50 year old seacocks are in perfect condition, no corrosion, no dezincification. They were well made to begin with and made for the marine environment.

I think that the whole world is on track to become one big nanny state. Thank God with a sailboat one can escape.

Back in the day the French tried making life rafts mandatory for All sailing vessels.. so next time you take out your Laser imagine a life raft strapped on deck..
Re the seacocks.. That's one of the various ways manufacturers can cut corners, grow profits and stay within their pet creation.. The CE Standard.

[colombo]

Oh wow. I didn't receive an email to let me know there was another response, so I thought the responses had dried up. I was way off! There is loads of really useful info in here, ta v much to all for your feedback

In summary:

I can flag in the UK, sail it around the med and have it in a marina in Barcelona, as long as I take it out of the EU every 18 months. I also have to satisfy the Spanish tax authorities that I am not veering in to the territory of being a Spanish tax resident. This is something I already had concerns about, from splitting my time between the Barcelona and London, with the UK having major tax advantages for my regular income, and this might serve to further mudy the waters on that front.

I could therefore flag in the UK, pay UK Vat to avoid potential complications with my tax residency, but I would still have to move the boat in and out of the EU every 18 months.

Option 3 is to flag with another EU country, which doesn't help with my general tax residency status, nor does it reduce my vat bill, but it does mean I can keep my boat in the EU year round.

Is there a fourth option of buying a boat that has EU VAT paid status, and then flagging it as British? Or can I buy a boat with no VAT paid on it, pay EU VAT and then flag it as British? Would that both tie me to the uk from a tax residency perspective and remove the need to dart back and forth from non EU waters?

[colombo]

Originally Posted by kas_1611

Your German passport will mean you are automatically liable for VAT on any purchase within the EU.

This is exactly what happened to us when Croatia joined. Our boat was VAT unpaid and UK flagged but because we were EU Citizens there was no way to avoid the VAT issue.

Make it simple for yourself and buy a VAT Paid boat. Or ditch the German passport.

By the way you would be liable regardless of what flag you fly unless you can prove you are NOT and EU Resident which would be difficult if you reside for more than 90 days in Spain, which would also be illegal under Schengen.

I don't have the German passport yet - it is being processed and could take another year.

I have a permission to reside in Spain. You are meant to get that paperwork if you stay there for any period of time that is longer than 3 months. If you stay there for less than 6 months of a calendar year then you are an individual who has a permission to be there, but who is not (automatically) a full time, tax resident.

[colombo]

Originally Posted by goeasy123

Where in Spain are you based?

Barcelona